Any advice on bad nurseries or people to buy from?

Discussion in 'Maples' started by graftedmaplecollector, Apr 22, 2004.

  1. graftedmaplecollector

    graftedmaplecollector Active Member 10 Years

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    I've been collecting maples for landscape and containers for about a
    year now. I was wondering if anyone had advice on nurseries to watch
    out for or individuals who might sell bad or injured plants.
  2. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    San Joaquin Valley, California
    Hi Graftedmaplecollector:

    Part of me knows that I have to be diplomatic and I am not very good
    about being that way at all in regards to which growers or nurseries
    to stay away from. Unfortunately, the "the good old boy" standard
    still is in effect and I will not openly ostracize anyone in writing,
    not in an open forum but if need be I will in an E-Mail that I already
    know they will delete before they ever read it, so why do it?

    In person, that will be different as I've told certain people their
    Maples are dirty when I saw them but only after they asked me for
    my opinion. There is doubt even today as to what diseases are which
    but if you stick with the premise that all forms of Japanese Maples,
    even seedling forms as well, have some Verticillium in them then you
    will be way ahead of the knowledge curve.

    What I am getting at is simply this, the single most devastating killer
    of Japanese Maples is Verticillium Wilt period. I do not care what
    others say or think as they have not grown Maples long enough or
    have the first hand knowledge to know which end is up sometimes.
    We've all had to deal with the experts in Maples but it is the growers
    that know and have learned the hard way what is the primary killers
    of their Maples. It is sad that the intellectual and scientific community
    have done such a hap-hazard job of identifying what all is going on
    with the diseases of Japanese Maples but until there is funding from
    outside sources to our "publish or perish" Universities and our state
    Cooperative Extensions, then I doubt we will know more in the next
    10 years than we learned first hand in the last 30-50 years.

    So much about Maples has to be learned over time. Whether it is
    to determine whether a Japonicum is a true form or whether it
    is a seedling selection of another form is a continuing problem for
    us. The best advice I can give is to know your Maple, learn as
    best you can where it is most likely to thrive and where not to
    grow certain varieties. Ask around, use this forum to ask about
    specific varieties of Japanese Maples and see what you get for
    a response. The smart way to learn Maples is go to the thread
    dealing with the books on Maples and buy most of them. Read
    them, know them and then ask questions that you are unsure of.
    I would like to believe many members of the Maple Society will
    be glad to share what they know or have learned first hand. The
    hardest part as always is learning how Maples look and grow from
    area to area. What works best for me may not work so well for
    others elsewhere at all and what works real well in Canada may
    not work for me. You also have to understand and most people
    are clueless here is that the "game" of growing Maples changes
    for the warmer climates. Most of the book authors have not
    grown Maples where you are so we have to learn on our own,
    most of the time the hard way but we will learn what we can do
    and what we cannot do real quick and that is the altruism that
    many people still do not comprehend. Then we get into factors
    of heat and humidity and heat and low humidity and there again
    there will be definite differences in how we do things. You may
    have to learn that some forms of Japanese Maples may require a
    Fungicide to help them out or to ward off various diseases that I
    never see where I am. Anthracnose does not bother us here on
    Maples (it is not that way on Modesto, Phoenix or Raywood Ash
    here, yet Rosemont Ash seems to be unaffected) but I bet it does
    have a real negative affect where you are, all because of your
    temperatures and your high humidity. Another form of Pseudonomas
    may indeed be a factor for you where you are yet it does not bother
    our Maples at all but it is in every Fruit Tree we have here (transmitted
    from grafted parent plant to newly grafted plant). There is no cure for
    the disease but we can suppress with chemicals or better yet by knowing
    what and where to prune it whereby it is not a big deal to us any more
    but that Bacterium will have devastating effects in other areas that are
    not used to seeing it or in knowing how to cope with it.

    We will learn who to stay away from in time but you have to learn
    on your own what a diseased plant looks like and what is a damaged
    plant and just not buy from those retailers or wholesale growers.
    Even then there is no guarantee that a reputable seller may not have
    a diseased plant and few people ever take into account that the original
    imports from Japan had disease problems in some of the varieties.
    Some varieties such as the real thing Bloodgood have shown to be
    excellent growers seemingly no matter where that plant is grown
    but Red Filigree is a crap shoot no matter where that plant is grown.
    I've personally seen that plant suffer in cold climates every bit as
    much as it does here. People have not taken the time to know
    which varieties will be down right tough to grow. In one of my
    posts in another thread I mentioned what can go on with Phytophthora
    with certain dwarf forms, I omitted Ueno yatsubusa but it also is
    susceptible to Phytophthora. How do I know those particular varieties
    are more susceptible than others? It is because I lost all of those I
    referenced because of Phytophthora. That is why and I was not alone
    in losing them either.

    Last edited: Apr 24, 2004
  3. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    San Joaquin Valley, California
    That will be it for a while about Verticillium and
    Phytophthora. I was around when various Maple
    growers took it upon themselves to clean up many
    varieties of Japanese Maples, to which we take a
    lot of their work and dedication for granted.

    I'll cool it for a while. I will say that we did have
    our Maples tested by a state lab that did confirm
    for us that Phytophthora was indeed what killed
    several of our small leafed dwarf forms.

  4. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    San Joaquin Valley, California
    Hi to all:

    As far as the second part of the original question I
    can answer that one without my expressing more
    of the views that others that I knew pretty well had
    for many years.

    All of the links that I provided for the 'Links to Maple
    Websites' thread are all people I can buy from without
    any hesitation. Some of them I've known longer and
    in some cases much better than I am letting on.

    A further note: The one thing I am not fond of doing
    is not listing the strain or species when I have referred
    to a disease causing organism. We've paid good
    money to know which strain hurt us in Maples and
    I am not going to give that information away "free
    gratis". It is because I will not divulge everything
    that I know is why I will shut up about particular
    diseases on Maples. I do feel that no one really
    wants to know about pathogens until some members
    start losing their own Maples and then a crisis situation
    for them may soon develop. It is better to know what
    might hurt you before it happens rather than after the
    fact but perhaps I am the only person to look at things
    that way.

    Best regards,


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