The more I look at both Steve's and lorax's photos, the more I think it is the same as mine...I guess I'll have to wait for a new spadix, which shouldn't be long as spring has sprung over here. Ed
First I want to thank Photopro for inviting me to participate in this Forum and also my thanks to Daniel for allowing me to upload pictures being a new member. I have three different types of Anthurium, 2 of them I have had for at least 25 years and I am almost certain that they are from Mexico, but I don't know what type of Anthurium they are, so instead of trying to describe them I will show pictures that I took this morning. The first picture show young berries. The second show mature berries, one is ready to pull up and most of the times there are 2 seeds inside. The third shows the plant with four spadix.
This is a different Anthurium, the leaves are 1.30 Mts, the spadix bears the same red berries as the one above.
Sigtris, although they appear to certainly be in section Pachyneurium, I'm doubtful these are Anthurium schlechtendalii. The spadices are quite different. The leaves could fit, but the shape of the spadix tends to lead me to believe these are a different species. I'll do some research on the spadix shape and see what I can come up with. I do suggest you post the link to the photos of your garden. I believe the regulars on this board would love to see what you have done! Truly amazing! Steve
See if you can locate a good photo of Anthurium cubense and/or Anthurium salvadorense. Compare those to your plant Sigtris and tell us what you think. Both are common to Mexico and have red fruit.
The plant in the picture above was bending sideways, the hight of its roots were about 60 cms, so I cut the roots in half to be able to give it a new pot and make the plant go straight. I was going to trash the root, but I decided to place it right next to a tree at the bottom, to my surprise in 2 months the roots started to develop two new plants, as you can see the new leaves are shiny.
If you think it is OK to this will lead you to my garden pictures: http://homepage.mac.com/lul/PhotoAlbum36.html
Mine definitely is not a "cubense" the berries in that one are round, the berries in mine are shaped long like a small chile (pepper)
The Anthurium in this pictures is (I think) the same one as the first pictures in this thread. It also from Mexico
Tomorrow I'll try to research the shape of the berries and find out which spadices hang pendantly. A lot of figuring out what "we" have is eliminating what we don't have. What you experienced with your roots is precisely what I was trying to explain earlier in this thread.
Thanks Sigtris for sharing and Steve for inviting. Looks like I've opened up a can of worms, pardon the pun. Sigtris, in your last photo the spadix looks very similar to mine, colour shape even coming to a mild point at the top, however I am pretty sure that mine doesn't droop down like the ones in your earlier pics, even the spent ones, are still upright. Will have to verify this afternoon, will even try to take some pics if the lighting suitable (raining and overcast here at the moment) to compare Ed
Ah, Ed, now you know how I routinely feel.... Sigtris - is it normal for the spadices and peduncles to lay along the leaves like that? The ones on my plants are erect and stand away from the leaves.
I'll certainly allow Sigtris to comment on what he has observed in his own plants, but the pendant spadix would certainly be indicative of a different species. The shape of the spadices are also quite different, plus Sigtris' note the berries have a distinctive shape. Keep all the comments coming since more information gives us more to use with the keys. But this morning I'm going to read all I can find to begin to discern what additional species may be involved here. For anyone interested in learning to key Anthurium species from this section (Pachyneurium) I'd recommend you order a copy of Dr. Croat's journal, Annals of the Missouri Botanical Garden 1991, Volume 78, #3 You can order it from the Missouri Botanical Garden for around $20. Its technical, but if you enjoy Anthurium species with the "birds nest" form, quite valuable. Besides, its a great source of "self education". Be sure and find a botanical dictionary as well. You'll need it! Daniel, is this volume in the UBC bookstore?
Sigtris, Anthurium cubense appears to be out of the running as you've indicated. The seed berries would be orange/red. Anthurium salvadorense is still in the running but I can't confirm if the spadix should hang pendantly. I did find in Dr. Croat's notes Anthurium salvadorense is closely related to Anthurium schlechtendalii. Anthurium schlechtendalii can also produce berries that are both round and obtuse. I've asked four Anthurium experts who are much smarter than I to take a look at this thread. Hopefully one, or all, will give us some additional information, especially on the new plants Sigtris has introduced.
OK boys and girls. Here's some reading for you: http://www.aroid.org/genera/anthurium/pachyneurinum/schlechts.htm I wish I could get Dr. Croat to give us some input but that will have to wait until late October due to his current trip to Ecuador. Lorax, maybe you could just run out and show him the photos in the jungle somewhere! Here may be part of our problem with these two apparently different plants. Anthurium schlechtendalii is known to be extremely variable as I've said too many times already. Anthurium species are also known to quickly cross with other similar species. Anthurium schlechtendalii also has at least two known subspecies and one can have arching inflorescences that hang pendantly. Dr. Croat has told me several times before they normally are erect but as you can read in this paper, not always. Anthurium schlechtendalii also runs close in range to A. salviniae which is a similar, but smaller, species. Looks like I get to do more reading! If you decide to read this get yourself a botanical dictionary. You'll need it! Be sure and click on the link to A. salviniae to check that photo. One of my Anthurium experts reported back and said he didn't recognize the species from Sigtris' pendant spadix.
I just received this from Leland Miyano in Hawaii. Leland is quite sharp on identifying species. His background training was with Roberto Burle Marx in Brazil plus numerous field trips into the jungle. Roberto is likely the most famous plant collector to have ever lived. I've been dancing around this subject, but Leland brings it right to the front. He also pointed out one really important portion for those considering dividing a specimen, "Aloha. You are assuming that the Anthurium in question is a species, not a hybrid. There are many Anthurium section Pachyneurium that have been hybridized...especially those that reach the general nursery trade. You should ask what the history of the plant is and if they have a clue as to locality data. Be aware that morphologies can vary with the age of the plants too. The Australian plant and the Ecuadorian photos appear to be different taxa....but I would hesitate assigning species without further details and data. Another thing about vegetative propagation of these plants...it is true they can be separated...but I've lost plants that were not ready to be separated, or if the timing was wrong...spring or early summer is best. Some plants are very slow to recover, depending on the species. etc. If you cut too close to the meristems, one can easily lose one or both plants...rot, slip of the knife....I could not see another growing tip on the photo shown...perhaps your contact could take details to see if indeed he has pups... I cut the top off of my Anthurium lutenyii ( Panama) and it took at least three months before I saw activity from the lower portion. My plant had a stem almost a foot tall....I topped this plant since I only had one and needed to outplant another as backup. I did this drastic move to force a second growing tip. Sometimes you could lose the bottom or vice-versa and not increase your population. The worst scenario is to lose both." Leland and I communicate almost weekly, sometimes much more often. I've learned to trust his instincts.
Very interesting....unfotunately I don't have any history on this plant, I dug it out of someones backyard about a year ago and they had only just bough the house, they were not into plants at all. I won't try to seperate this plants. For me, it is not worth the risk. Didn't get out in the garden yesterday, still raining, however I will on the weekend and go from there. Ed PS I just had a thought....I only knew this plant was an Anthurium, because I seen it in a botanical garden in Townsville. If I get time today I will try and ring them and see what they come up with. At the time I thought it was identical to mine, but in the wake of this thread I now realise it may have only been similar
My guess is your plant Ed is at least very closely related to Anthurium schlechtendalii. I'm currently a bit in the dark on Sigtris' plants. Leland's points are excellent, but we also have to consider the normal variations of the species. Dr. Croat considered for some time my plant could be a hybrid until he personally examined plant parts including several leaves plus a complete peduncle, spathe and spadix. I had also documented the base of the plant and other important features for him to examine. Only then did he appear to believe mine is an unusual variation. Fortunately for me, he found notes in his office which matched my plant. We're only a week away from the IAS Aroid show in Miami and these will be topics of discussion for me. So don't abandon the ship just yet!!! I especially want to learn more about Sigtris' apparently unusual spadix and berry shape.
OK....just spoke to someone at the Townsville Palmetum and she is sending me a brochure out that has a list of most of the species they have, so hopefully it will be on that brochure. I should receive this Monday or Tuesday, I'll keep everyone posted... Ed
In regards to the Alocasia...I just went to a nursery to find my plant and they had it labeled as Alocasia calodora...I just looked it up on the net and I'm not convinced...any thoughts... Ed
Ed, according to TROPICOS there is no such species as "Alocasia calodora". That name does not even exist under a different spelling. Someone has apparently tagged that one with a bad name. I also went to the International Plant Names Index with the same results. No such name. As Dr. Croat would say, "its a made-up name". There is a vastly different species which I grow known scientifically as Alocasia odora. But the leaves are very different. I'm in hopes I'll see Pete Boyce next week and if I do we'll find a computer and take a look at the photos. Otherwise, I'll try again after the show to send him the link to this thread so we both can get an ID.
Gee the internet annoys me sometimes, I got 331 hits for Alocasia calodora (with different spelling) some claiming its a hybrid A. gageana "California" X A. odora...Quote "it is a Larry Garner hybrid" Do you know him Steve Ed
