The story in this plants is that I have had them for at least 30 years in my garden, where they came from, I don't know. They have been transplanted several times, always looking for less sun The last move was about a year ago to a really shady place which they seem to enjoy the have had flowers and all those other botanical names, that are very hard for me to retain, since this is a Quick post. I have about 10 seeds that have germinated from both plants. That is about all the information I can give in those two plants. I hope it is of some help.
Hey Sigtris...just had a look at your photos, they are great. Was that an Asplenium nidus I seen growing on a rock? Ed
Sorry, don't know the gentleman. Such a hybrid would be possible but the resulting plant at least should not have the blade in your photo. Check out these links for both Alocasia gageana and Alocasia odora on my website: http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Alocasia gageana pc.html http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Alocasia odora pc.html Both of my species have been confirmed by botanists as having the correct name. A. gageana has several cultivars and can range from 1.3 to 2 meters in height (4 feet to 6 feet). Alocasia odora can grow quite tall with a max height of close to almost 4 meters (around 14 or 15 feet). I've personally grown Alocasia odora with blades measuring over 1 meter (close to 4 feet). Alocasia gageana is much smaller. Any resulting hybrid from the two would have very large blades but it is my opinion would not look like your photo. Information on the internet is frequently dubious. I always attempt to check TROPICOS or IPNI before making a determination on my own. I've found countless names on the internet claimed to be "scientific" that cannot be verified. One lady argued and argued with me her "Philodendron barryii" was EXTREMELY rare and only a few botanists even knew it existed. She claimed it was so rare it was not even in the scientific sources as yet. Then she offered to sell me one for $10.00 US. Somehow, "extremely rare" and $10.00 just don't go together. I've personally paid some very high prices for truly rare specimens. But that's the nature of the internet. I didn't check that name on the net but I'll do so to see what I can locate. Regardless, the name "Alocasia calodora" does not exist in taxonomy.
Told you! I knew you'd like the photos of Sigtris' garden. Very impressive. Incredible plants and birds. As for your Alocasia, the edges of your blade are quite ragged as is the plant I have with no name in my atrium. Some of the photos of "Alocasia caladora" or "Alocasia calidora" on the net could easily be Alocasia odora with a bad spelling. I did find it interesting that a couple of well known sellers were using the bad name! Most of the good sellers verify names before selling a specimen. Looks like someone missed this one. I did find a couple of photos that could easily be a cross between Alocasia odora and Alocasia gagena. The blade looked about right for a hybrid between the two. But my immediate instinct is someone "heard" a name and didn't write it down and by the time they did write it down they had added a few letters. I recently found a well known plant author was describing Alocasia odora as "Alocasia odorata" in several texts. When I sent that author a note suggesting they check IPNI and TROPICOS they came back and said it was a typo and the correct name was Alocasia odora. Typos can easily happen since the vast majority of editors have no idea what is a real scientific name and what is a "made-up" scientific name. You could write an article in some on-line "encyclopedias" and call your plant "Alocasia edleighii" and they'd leave the text up as accurate. I find the internet "encyclopedia" Wipipedia very often has made up scientific names for plants! But the big problem with that source is ANYONE can edit or change anything on their "encyclopedia". Try it! I was surprised an "encyclopedia" could be easily edited by a 3rd grader! Just today I made a major edit to Impatiens psittacina. They had a bunch of bad info on the site! But the problem is, they make no effort to verify that I know what I'm talking about either! Tomorrow someone will likely change what I wrote back to something totally wrong!
Yes I agree with the incorrect info on Wikipedia. Our governement is in the news at the moment about editing recent events on Wikipedia. Anyway, just thought I'd suss the nurseries out on the name that they claim to sell plants under. Amazing isn't it. It even gets more complicated with common names, but you would assume (not me anymore) that the nurseries to have it right!! Imagine if a doctor mis-diagnosed you, consistently...everyone would be up in arms. I guess gardening isn't life threatening (for us anyway) but the point is still valid anyway...just my ramble anyway... I will be out in the garden tomorrow to measure and photograph... Ed
I fear, especially in your part of the world, this will become even more common. Just tonight I received a large batch of photos from Indonesia of a species similar to the plants being discussed here. The photos did not include a single spathe/spadix photo. Nor a berry or any form of the inflorescence. I was asked to ID them so they could have a "good" name to sell them with. That is just not possible. I tried, as best possible, to explain why it is not possible to give a name to the vast majority of Anthurium species using a photo of the leaves. I even suggested they read this thread and buy Dr. Croat's journal. But chances are that plant will soon have some name, likely wrong, on the internet. Then I did a little research looking for Indonesian nurseries selling Anthurium sp. The bad names on their sites (at least the ones in English) is astounding! The craving for Anthurium sp. in SE Asia is incredible right now. I got a request yesterday to buy 40,000 seeds of several rare species! Those seeds would be worth anywhere from $100,000 to $200,000 if they could be found. I'd bet the potential buy wanted to pay a few hundred dollars for them. When I told a writer that last week they didn't seem to flinch. One shot back and said he has sold single plants for $100,000! The sellers over there appear to be putting down on the their sites whatever name someone gives them. Since Americans, Australians and Europeans will now begin to use some of those names believing they are accurate this will only get much worse! It is simply the nature of plant selling. Bad names are common on eBay all the time. Few people are willing to take the time to seek the advice of a qualified botanist or buy enough journals to even attempt to key out the plant. They just post the name they were told or just make one up. My guess is up to 50% of the names on eBay are frequently wrong! Many times I look up the name the seller is using and IPNI says there is no such name. But the person who buys the plant will claim forever that name is correct. I find the same thing with on-line sellers daily. It appears to be more important to "sell" than to be accurate. An even bigger fear is folks in SE Asia who are willing to pay astromical prices for Anthurium plants that are already often expensive will make collecting almost impossible for all of us. I have numerous species that cost in excess of $100 for a small plant due to the species' rarity. If folks on the opposite side of the world are willing to pay thousands of dollars for a specimen it becomes obvious where all the plants will go.
Ed, thanks for your kind words about my photos. The Asplenium nidus is not on a rock what you see is the root system in the fern, it is a very old Asplenium the leaves are 1 meter long. Thanks
OK boys and girls. We have a resolution to the Alocasia mystery on page one. I wrote LariAnn Garner of Aroidia Research in Miami and forwarded the photo from page one. I also asked about the Alocasia Calidora mystery. LariAnn is an aroid researcher and creates many hybrid aroids using specimens in the Anthurium and Alocasia genus. This is her note verbatum. Hopefully, whoever is now claiming they created this hybrid will find this note. LariAnn did the work and published the plant with the name in Aroideana which is the journal of the International Aroid Society. She created the Alocasia known as Calidora. The name comes from California and odora combined. Hoo-Boy, this one is something to comment on!! First of all, the plant pictured is NOT an Alocasia x calidora, but is in fact an Alocasia x portora, another one of my hybrids. Secondly, "caladora" or "calodora" are corruptions of the name that I published correctly according to the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature; the correct name is Alocasia x calidora, which is indeed a cross I did between Alocasia odora and Alocasia gageana "California". I was the first one to do this cross and publish the results and name in Aroideana. IMHO, reputable growers would respond to my email detailing this; I sent out such an email a few years ago and also published this information in the IAS Newsletter for all to see. Some nurseries changed to the correct name, others ignored my email and continue using the wrong name. In all cases, I receive no remuneration whatsoever from all the sales of the two plants of mine that are being sold worldwide by these nurseries, so I thought that the least they could do was to credit me with producing them in the first place. Alas, some have refused me even this small compensation!! All plants I've seen on the Internet that are labeled "caladora" or "calodora" (unless mislabeled) are in fact Alocasia x calidora, one of my "children", that I can recognize anywhere. Hope this helps, LariAnn Garner Aroidia Research Fair is fair now boys and girls. I know personally how frustrating it can be to have my photography work stolen and claimed by others. I've been forced more than once to sue to prove what others were claiming as their work was actually mine. I find my work from my website copied verbatum and posted on other sites with zero credit. So, it is only fair, since LariAnn followed all the rules, the plant Alocasia x calidora be credited as her hybrid creation. You can easily find sites claiming they, or someone they know, created the hybrid! Not so! And simply changing the spelling does not make claiming someone else is the hybrid creator valid. If you look up the species as Alocasia x calidora you'll find numerous credits given to LariAnn by reputable firms.
Hi, This is LariAnn of Aroidia Research; photopro contacted me about the first two pictures, although he only supplied the first one. I was able to ID the plant based on that picture, but now that I've seen the inflorescence, the ID is completely confirmed. The plant is Alocasia x portora, one of my original Alocasia hybrids. It is actually a selection from the group of hybrid seedlings I refer to as "Portora Red" due to the reddish petioles and purplish spathe. Please visit my site http://aroidiaresearch.org/portora.htm and you will see clearly that this is the same plant. As photopro noted above, I published an announcement in the IAS Newsletter, Volume 27-2, page 15, concerning the confusion in nomenclature, detailing the history and basis for my naming, and providing all the information necessary to clear up any confusion reference Alocasia x calidora and Alocasia x portora. The plant is a hybrid of Alocasia odora and Alocasia portei, done in the late 1970s and published in Aroideana Volume 6, No. 3, pp. 74-81 in July 1983. To avoid confusion, please know that at the time of publication I was known as Lawrence Garner. LariAnn Garner Aroidia Research
Thanks LariAnn! I hope we can put that portion of the confusion to rest, at least on this board. Have you seen the Anthurium spadix and unusual berries on page 3 of this thread? That one is driving me a bit crazy! I've read everything I can locate in Dr. Croat's work and still no obvious conclusions.
Oh, Anthurium IDs, especially in the birdsnest group, are (for me at least) particularly difficult as they hybridize (and have been hybridized) so easily. I've done a few hybrids of my own, and that was years ago, and I continue today. My knowledge of Anthuriums is far more limited than my knowledge of Alocasia so I wouldn't even hazard a guess as to which birdsnest species or hybrid that one is. I can say with certainty that it is not A. superbum or A. jenmanii! LariAnn Aroidia Research
Thanks alot LariAnn for that Alocasia ID!! I feel priveleged to have one of your "babies" and he/she is doing quite well. Every time I go to a nursery now, I will be able to tell them that their plant ID is incorrect and the reasons why. I'll spread the news on this part of the world anyway. Again, thanks for your time LariAnn. One ID down one to go...we are halfway there!! Am going to take some measurements. Ed:)
OK...some measurements... Peduncle 47cm Spadix 27cm Spathe 17cm Leaves 97cm Hopefully this will help a bit Ed
Ed, your measurements tend to confirm your plant is likely Anthurium schlechtendalii. I've been bouncing ideas off several knowledgeable Anthurium experts and it also strongly appears Sigtris' plant with the eliptical berries may also be an odd variation of Anthurium schlechtendalii. Possibly a natural hybrid. Sigtris, can you verify if there are actually seeds in those oblong berries? There are documented cases where Anthurium schlechtendalii has produced oblong berries that were sterile. And a case or two where there actually are seeds present. With the help of others, we've just about ruled out Anthurium salviniae. The plant just does not appear to fit. It appears, in the absence of other information, we may simply have to wait on Dr. Croat to return before having a good answer. Since many species in this section are so difficult to verify with positive results, we'll likely have to just wait on Tom to get back from Ecuador. We fly to Miami on Thursday for the aroid show and I guarantee, this will be a subject for discussion down there!
Yes, there are seeds in the oblong berries, normally there are 2 seeds inside each berry and sometimes only 1. I planted about 10 seeds and after about 15 days the little plants are already coming up.
It may well be a different species. So far, I've just about exhausted the options. Maybe Dr. Croat will check his email!! Steve
Ed: I just saw your Anthurium picture again, the leaves veins are different then in mine. Tomorrow morning I will post a picture of one of my leaves so you can compare. Yours looks to me like Anthurium cubense.
Unfortunately, the leaf shape can vary greatly within a species. The best ways to determine the species are good photos of the cataphylls at the base of the plant, the spathe and the spadix. Sigris, when you take a new leaf photo please also take a photo of the center of the base of the plant where the leaves join. If there has been a recent new leaf emerge the cataphylls should be visible.
This thread is actually number 12 over here when you google Anthurium cubense...certainly LOOKS like it Ed
When comparing Google photos be sure and check the source. I'd trust them if they are from a scientific source such as a botanical garden. Otherwise, use a bit of caution since there is no way of knowing if a scientist verified the photos.
Ed, read this. Its technical but you can figure it out. Compare the measurements to your plant. http://www.aroid.org/genera/Anthurium/pachyneurinum/cubense.htm
Although it was raining I went outside with an umbrella and took a picture of one leave so you can compare.
