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Discussion in 'Araceae' started by edleigh7, Sep 3, 2007.
Sorry Sigtris...which Anthurium is that...A. cubense?
Ed, I did not post a picture of A cubense, but I think yours is that.
Tomorrow I will go to a nursery where they have hundreds of a. cubense and take pictures. The a cubense it is also supposed to be from Mexico.
I posted a picture of one of my leaves so you can compare and see that mine is not the same as yours.
where are you, where is your address, sigtris from cuernavaca? my brother live in mexico city..and i interest it with your anthurium seed, maybe my brother can see u in cuernavaca but i need your address. this is my email: firstname.lastname@example.org
learif. I sent you an e-mail with the info you requested three days ago.
Sorry,..i'll receive n reply it yesterday..
OK guys and gals. Just back from the IAS aroid show in Miami, barely off the plane. The consensus among the experts at the show Sigtris is your specimen is a natural hybrid. Many are fairly certain one of the parents is Anthurium plowmanii due to the leaf and berry shape. Minus a genetic test that will be impossible to confirm but I'd take it to the bank based on the credentials of the people who offered that information. Interestingly, we saw an almost identical plant up in a large tree at Fairchild Tropical Botanic Gardens with seed berries the same shape as your plant. I've got photos but it took several hundred so it will take a day or two to go through them all. I also have information on Ed's unusual Philodendron from a different thread. As soon as I can catch my breath I'll pass that along as well!
I am looking forward for your photos.
Excellent news Steve and welcome back...look forward to the pics in due course
As soon as I can get the disc out of the camera and into the computer I'll start working on a disc for CD rom for both of you. This might take a bit of time since I doubt you'd learn a lot with only numbers on the photos. I'll work on the best photos and try to give them all descent names so you know what you are seeing.
Sigtris and Ed, your plants were good topics of discussion. Lots of opinions on Sigtris' plant but the guys who really know what they are talking about were fairly confident at the end. I wanted to try to collect some seeds from the big one well up in the tree but wheel chairs don't work well trying to get through the "jungle".
Just in case any of you are going to be in Miami anytime soon, be sure and take a walk through the lowland rain forest exhibit at Fairchild Tropical Botanic Garden. Quite amazing! Several long paths (which are paved) run through the rain forest and there are tons of epiphytes and terrestrial rarities. The large indoor "rain forest" where I came up with the idea for my own version has grown so thickly it is amazing. The orchid and bromeliad displays are now totally natural and you'd swear you were in a rain forest somewhere in South America!
And next year, you guys need to plan early to be there!
So Steve, do I go with A. cubense????
I think your plant is either Anthurium cubense or Anthurium schlentendalii. I can't be certain. But once you produce a spathe and spadix, especially if you are fortunate enough to get berries, hopefully we can declare a winner. In the meantime........ take a look at this! This is a full grown Anthurium cubense! That is my buddy Leland Miyano from Hawaii standing with it examining the spadix. And look at the size of the spadix! Leland is about 5' 8" for comparison! Now that is a super size Anthurium!
Wow 8 () !! What a great specimen!!! I am green with envy now
Just keep it happy and give it a little fertilizer. This plant was grown by Denis Rodentale and his son and crew at Silver Krome Gardens in Miami. They grow some of the most incredible specimens in the world!
Just a thought, could this be the longest plant ID on this forum??
I had already thought of that one! I don't know if we've set a record or not. Maybe Daniel will chime in somewhere on that one! Some good info in there anyway on Anthurium sp. for anyone willing to take the time to read it!
About two hours ago I took the picture of A cubense at a nursery near by, the owner of the nursery with no hesitation answered my Q "what anthurium is that"
she said it is an Anturium cubense. This nursery specializes in all the anthuriums (the flower ones)
Ed maybe you can compare.
and what about this one.., in my country we call it Anthurium Jenmanii Cobra, because the leaves like the head of cobra.. is it right?
It appears to be Anthurium jenmanii. Any additional names could be cultivar names or common names added by a seller in an attempt to make the name unique. In a scientific form, the name "cobra" means nothing.
To be absolutely certain of the species you'd need to post good photos showing a clear leaf blade, the base of the plant, and preferably a spathe and spadix. Identification of Anthurium is almost impossible without the spathe and spadix.
One big problem is I read folks in Indonesia love to hybridize the species. That could mean your plant is a combination of more than one species. Makes for interesting specimens but destroys the natural heritage of the plant. If that is the case, there is no way short of a DNA test to figure out what the parents may have been. I purposely don't collect hybrid species since I prefer to know the heritage of my plants. I prefer to know where the plant originated and exactly how it grows in the wild.
Besides, Anthurium species are known to have numerous variations which makes it difficult enough to determine the species without throwing another parent into the mix. Some Anthurium species have 20 or more leaf forms. Therefore, a photo of a single leaf does not make it possible to offer a good identification.
Post more good good photos as described and we'll try to help you verify what you have.
You should read this:
http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Anthurium jenmaniii pc.html
I'm not a good photographer, but I'll try to make it clear
Identification of any Anthurium that is a member of section Pachyneurium can be quite difficult. Your photo could be any of about 20 to 30 species. The red berries are an indicator but still leave a wide variety of possible candidates since red berries are the single most common color.
I'd suggest you try to purchase a copy of Dr. Tom Croat's journal Annals of the Missouri Botanical Garden 1991, Volume 78, #3. This book is approximately $30 and can be ordered from the Missouri Botanical Garden. It contains a complete set of "keys" that will help you arrive at a possible identification of specimens from the Anthurium section.
However, if your specimen is a hybrid form, and natural hybrids are extremely common in this group, you will likely never figure out the parentage. This is explained in the journal.
The problem is this. These species is extremely variable. The leaves may change shape from one plant to another within the same species. In other words, there is no set leaf shape for any species. They may be wide, narrow, long, or short. Some have many different variables and the only way you can be certain is to examine the shape of the cataphyll, the shape and color of the berry, a cross section of the petiole, the length and shape of the peduncle, the length, presentation and shape of the spadix, and numerous other factors. It is not easy to figure out what species any single plant may be.
Take lots of photos of your plant. Photograph the top and bottom of each leaf. Photograph the base of the plant taking special note of the shape of the cataphyll. The cataphyll is the portion of the plant that develops when a new leaf is formed. Photograph the entire inflorescence paying special attention tot he spathe. Does it remain erect? Is it pendant? These factors are important. Measure the petiole. Measure the peduncle. Measure the spadix. Take good photos of the berries. You'll need these when you begin to key out the specimen.
Buy a copy of Dr. Croat's journal and spend a few weeks reading the text. Once you understand how to key out a species, then you'll find individual explanation of almost all the species in this section (the birds nest forms). But trying to figure out a species from a few photos is very difficult. That is why, if you read through this entire thread, you'll find I asked many questions regarding each specimen in order to attempt an identification.
I have a plant that I am nearly 100% sure is what everyone has been calling A. jenmanii and although the plant illustrated here has similar leaf shape, the infructescence of the one illustrated here is "all wrong". My specimen produces much smaller berries on a longer spadix and they are not bright red like that at all. My plant is identical to the type specimen at Fairchild Botanic Gardens. The new leaves come out a deep wine-red color and mature to green; the leaf blades are completely free of undulation, being nearly flat.
If I were a betting person, I'd put real money on Learif's plant being a hybrid!!
You just perfectly described Anthurium jenmanii. My guess is Learif's plant is a hybrid as well. But I've learned to be cautious before making declarations anymore! It bears little resemblance to known species but I've got specimens Dr. Croat has declared to be a species that I was certain were hybrids. Anthurium are variable and they can easily fool you.
Learif's best bet is to get Tom's journal and learn all possible about the plant.
The photo I posted earlier in this thread with Leland standing by it is not Anthurium cubense as I identified it. Dr. Croat explained in a detailed email that species has only 6 to 7 lateral veins and the one in the photo had many more. Sorry for the bad ID!
If you're trying to find a verified photo of Anthurium cubense along with information you can find it here:
http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Anthurium cubense pc.html
The photo was taken by Dr. Croat and used with his permission.
OK everyone, I finally got berries!!!! YAY!!
Can anyone id it now????