Identification: Help identify vine and red grape

Discussion in 'Grapes and Grape Vines' started by GoodHabits, Oct 2, 2021.

  1. GoodHabits

    GoodHabits New Member

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    Hi everyone. I have tended to a small vine which at first was in a pot, and I finally put in the ground in spring 2019. This year was its second year in the ground and it has stretched over our arbor very well and had a pretty good fruiting season. I think next summer will be a proper "mature" fruit. The grapes definitely had seeds, probably medium size. Once they turned colour to red the grapes were sweet. I've attached photos of the leaves and grapes. When I tried to match the leaves online a few years ago with these, I thought a variety called Frontenac might be it, but I really can't be sure. They never turned a dark red colour like in some of the photos online. The grape is growing in Metro Vancouver (Maple Ridge) and it was from a cutting from a (very) mature vine, not seed.

    I'm attaching some images taken in late August. Many thanks for taking a look.
     

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  2. Sulev

    Sulev Contributor

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    Reminds me Red Globe, of popular varieties with seeds. But you have no reference on average size of your grapes, so the size may not match.
     
  3. GoodHabits

    GoodHabits New Member

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    This year, the size has bee around 1.2cm in diameter (maybe 1/3 of an inch), and definitely round shape. I believe they will grow bigger next year, still less than half-inch in diameter and probably remain at the size, based on grapes I saw on the mature vine. Hope that helps. Many thanks!
     
  4. Georgia Strait

    Georgia Strait Generous Contributor

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    It certainly looks healthy

    Where (town) was the « donor« vine — the one from which you took cutting?

    Vineyard grapes are often labrusca root stock with decent wine grape fruit vinifera (insert correct term for cuttings here - I just remembered ... is it scion?)
    So as to avoid phylloxera disease (which ironically went from N America to Europe many decades ago — I say ironic because some of us out here often think of invasives etc coming from Europe ... blackbirds and scotch broom etc)

    UC Davis - a well known school of viticulture even has DNA testing for vineyard grapes.

    You probably don’t need that expense - enjoy your PB & homemade Jelly

    (And harvest before the local wildlife pay a visit :)
     
  5. Sulev

    Sulev Contributor

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    Then Red Globe is probably not an option, it should have much larger fruits.
    My next suggestion would be Pinot Gris, based on popularity. There are number of other, less popular varieties, that are pretty similar.
    pinot gris grape - Google Search
     
  6. GoodHabits

    GoodHabits New Member

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    @Sulev and @Georgia Strait thank you so much for offering your insight into this. @Georgia Strait it looks like your thought about avoiding phylloxera disease got digressed? Or are you saying that labrusca root stock was used to graft scions on to (I'm trying here....lol) in order to avoid phylloxera disease? The donor was, as far as I know, also in Maple Ridge. I say "as far as I know" because a friend of mine and I were talking about using cuttings from there to propagate it, but I wasn't yet ready with my yard and hadn't built the arbor yet, but he showed up one day with the cutting in the pot and I just assumed he followed our plan! This year I mostly enjoyed eating them (the ones on the ground are best), and we had enough that, just like you pointed out, I didn't have to race the Stellar Jays and other critters to get to them. I do intend to try making some wine out of them eventually and I'm sure the kids will be all over it when they find out we can turn them into jelly.

    @Sulev I agree that Red Globe seems unlikely. What's been throwing me off is the deep lobes on the leaves. The leaves are all consistently deeply lobed with the 3 pronounced lobes, and most of the varieties I can find online show much more heart shaped leaves.

    I can't really explain why I want to know what type it is that much. I guess it just bugs me. I really do appreciate all your help.
     
  7. Sulev

    Sulev Contributor

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  8. Georgia Strait

    Georgia Strait Generous Contributor

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    @GoodHabits
    Yes - commonly in Okanagan vineyards and likely elsewhere in wine regions - the native North American labrusca (think: Welches grape juice or early Calona brand wine!) is the rootstock

    AND the currently more desirable vinifera are grafted on to that rootstock

    There was a huge govt taxpayer sponsored pullout of Okanagan grapes in the 70s to change from labrusca roots & fruit to labrusca roots with European vinifera fruit (grafting)

    A man named Lloyd Schmidt was (he is passed away now tho I think his sons continue in the industry) instrumental in bringing in quality vines to Canada and USA. He also co-founded Sumac Ridge wines label - which is a common higher end label out of the Okanagan.
    Canadian wine pioneer Lloyd Schmidt left his mark

    Here is a quick read about Okanagan wine history starting with the religious mission in Kelowna (Father Pandosy - also of apple fame) and the great pull-out program (literally ripping out and burning vineyards)

    10 great moments in Okanagan wine history

    Here is a summary article about the disease and how for some reason N Am grape labrusca were discovered to have resistance to phylloxera - Hence grafts today hère in Okanagan

    Phylloxera - Wikipedia

    When one sees a new vineyard planted in Okanagan - it looks like rows of 2 litre milk cartons - those are the new roots with graft being protected til they establish in the earth.
     
  9. Georgia Strait

    Georgia Strait Generous Contributor

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    Further to first post -

    Here is the agricultural crop DNA service fr UC Davis

    The price tag is much more than the oft-promoted Ancestry test for human species!

    Clearly this is for commercial growers. It would be of tremendous value if one had just bought a vineyard, for example, and need to verify for varietal wine label

    Foundation Plant Services
     
  10. GoodHabits

    GoodHabits New Member

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    That's some great history @Georgia Strait. Thanks for sharing. It's comforting to know that if I become really desperate I can use the $400+ service at UC Davis. Of course, it would be a ludicrously expensive thing to do for my 1 back-yard vine, so I'll just put it on a birthday wish list nobody will look at haha.

    Are we then assuming it's some kind of Pinot Gris? Any thoughts on it possibly being a Frontenac?
     
    Georgia Strait likes this.

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