British Columbia: is red elderberry polymorphic?

Hello, last year on a 4x4 outing I came across a native red elder with yellow berries. It was in amongst many others that had the red berries one expects. I searched nearby for more, alas none. I'm 58 and have lived on the west coast here all my life and am an avid outdoorsman and studier of nature.I have never seen this before and wonder if anyone else has noted this. Sorry no pics but I intend to revisit soon to see if it is still there and will photograph it if it is!

 

It comes in red, purple, nearly brown, orange, yellow and white*. I have only seen multiples together of the first three phases. With the more novel colors being solitary individuals, same as with the one yellow version you found.

*I have never come across a white one myself

 

My garden-writer friend, the late Anne Marrison, told me about orange Sambucus she found near her home in Whonnock, BC. She would probably not have been surprised to know that it could appear in other colours too.

Segue here - I was sold a Black Sambucus several years ago by a native plant grower who assured me it was of BC origin even though it had variegated green/white leaves. I am still suspicious that it is Sambucus nigra from Europe . . . any thoughts?

 

@Jake Sherlock, good morning, I wonder if you have seen Red elder with unripe green berries. Just a thought!!

D

 

Good morning Margot, this is a photo of my Sambucas Nigra if that's of any help in identifying yours.

D

 

As far as I can determine, Sambucus nigra and Sambucus nigra ssp. cerulea are the same plant and it does appear that that is the name of the blue/black-berried one that grows here. I've wanted one since I saw some growing in Port Alberni, not too far from where I live. I had thought S. nigra was the name of the European species and S. cerulea was the one that grows in BC.

'Nigra' apparently refers to the colour of the bluish-black berries, not the leaves, which are typically green. Yours is beautiful but I think it may be a cultivar not typical of those growing wild. I know cultivars such as 'Black Lace' have been very popular the past few years with their dark leaves and pink flowers but people don't always give them the space they need.

I think the one I have, with variegated leaves, is likely a cultivar too - not something I'd find growing wild. And I definitely have it planted in the wrong spot!

 

Hi Margot, sorry I forgot to say, mine is Black Lace. I posted it in case the one you 'purchased' was similar.
We do have a lot of Elder growing wild where I live. People are out collecting flowers along the river to make their elderflower cordial, or something a bit stronger, lol.

D

 

Interesting observation

Now would certainly be the time - the day! - to go look for your yellow sighting 2019 before birds enjoy the berries.

I am Coast too and have never seen yellow fruit that I recall

Now, that said , in the Okanagan, ours are dark purple berries tho the shrub looks same as one at coast with red berries.

 

Acerholic, definitely not green/unripe berries. George, the rain is putting a damper on things! no pun intended. I definitely want to go and see if this bush is still there. It's amongst dozens if not hundreds of others all red. I live on 5 acres and am a native plant nut.I have dozens of red elders here that I look after in their native state. This year they and all other early natives are way behind.The berries are still small and green.Wood pigeons and black headed grosbeaks are here waiting.Inside one week all berries will be gone...once they ripen..It's a great show if one is a bird nut which I am in the first degree! When the elders first flower I pick and eat them raw as I wander on the property. I only eat the small new ones as I find the larger ones get grainy and bitter.

 

A mutation in not developing a particular anthocyanin for colouration is pretty common in plants. It seems like there is at least a two pigment system with varying levels of production in red elderberry fruits.

 

Many websites talk about uncooked elderberries being toxic . . . do you feel any ill-effects from the few you eat?

I found this website about animals eating the berries with the unintentionally funny comment:
Cyanide poisoned animals become very excited when unable to breathe.

Guide to Poisonous Plants – College of Veterinary Medicine and Biomedical Sciences – Colorado State University

 

Sambucus nigra is native to Europe, n Africa and w Asia. The white margined cultivar of it is 'Marginata'. Whereas S. cerulea (S. nigra subsp. c., S. c. var. mexicana, S. m.) is the blue elderberry native from s BC to CA and NM.

 

That must be the one I was sold as a BC native plant. Thanks for clarifying.

 

Margot,I was referring to eating young blossoms not the berries....I haven't tried that.

 

so I went and had a look for the yellow elder. It's too early yet . The berries are small and green still...some in the sunshine, what little of it there's been, are just starting to turn. I'll go back in a few days. Wood pigeons and thrushes are sitting around like they're waiting.

 

Sambucus - Wikipedia

Leaves, twigs, branches, seeds, roots, flowers, and berries of Sambucus plants produce cyanogenic glycosides, which have toxic properties. Ingesting a sufficient quantity of cyanogenic glycosides from berry juice, flower tea, or beverages made from fresh leaves, branches, and fruit has been shown to cause illness, including nausea, vomiting, abdominal cramps, diarrhea, and weakness.

So, thankfully, you have not eaten enough flowers to cause you problems!

 

Elderberry wine is definitely a thing, as is elderberry juice. The page at 10 Easy Steps to Make Homemade Elderberry Wine says

The most common edible varieties are the American elderberry (Sambucus canadensis) and the European elderberry (Sambucus nigra). These both have rich, dark purple berries and can grow from 8-20 feet tall, respectively. Note, there is also an elderberry variety with red berries (Sambucus racemosa), but those berries are poisonous.​

I'm not sure that page is the best source for information, but I think the Wikipedia page must be overstating the case.

 

If you look up all the various species, there are warnings of toxicity across the entire genus. The big difference is whether the berries are cooked or not.

It's fascinating to think that, way back when, at a time when people obviously knew eating the raw elderberries was problematic, they still persevered and tried cooking them to avoid the side effects. It seems to have worked.

 

Hello, I just came in from a second visit to see if the yellow elder is still "happening". This weather is slowing things up in the ripening of these berries. This spot is heavily shaded..all seems quite late this year. Elders in areas where the sun penetrates are turning including directly across the road from where I'm looking. Wood Pigeons are stripping the berries at a good pace including the small unripe green ones! Another visit in a couple of days.... Now as to toxicity, I certainly am no expert there, but having read some of the BC Govt issued bulletins regarding the indigenous peoples and their life histories it seems as though this prolific shrub and its' berries were coveted.Having said that a friend who was (passed on now) a licensed physician along with my father (passed on now) proceeded to make tinctures from the flowers in season as well as wine from the berries! Now to clarifiy....These men passed from old age!!! lol.

 

Yes. There was a time when a very conservative treatment of Sambucus lumped these two species into one (Bolli 1994, Dissertationes Botanicae vol. 223), but modern genetic evidence has shown them to be more distinct, so they are again accepted as separate species (Applequist 2015, Acta Hort. 1061: 25-33).

 

I did return many times to see if the "yellow" berries occurred....they did not. Very poor year after April here. I made several excursions out specifically looking for a yellow morph...looked at hundreds..all red. Two points of interest: All of the Salmon berries at this location were/are yellow...no red whatsoever. Next I've noticed the Native Sambucus succumbing to some sort of borer I presume. All new leaf suddenly wilts and the stems die. I've read about the possibility of a "new" invasive bug. Any thoughts here? Also an apology to Georgia Strait for calling you George! Duh

 

Hi @Jake Sherlock - I really admire your tenacity and willingness to keep us on the Forum updated about what you observe regarding this fascinating shrub.

 

I've seen sickly red elder with obvious honey fungus, look at the bottoms of some of these you have seen wilting to see if there are rhizomorphs visible.

 

Ron , I will look more closely at the ones in my yard here. They are also succumbing alarmingly quickly. I am unfamiliar with how to recognize a "rhizomorph". Can you help me out? I think I'd rather deal with a fungus than some of the bugs..I've got mountain ash sawflies and viburnum beetles driving me whacko too!

 

Ok , I've done some reading and now understand more fully these rhizomorphs. Maybe I should retract my statement about fungus over sawflies! lol....Maybe I'm gonna write a poem about pesky pesty stuff!