Leaf out quizz

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Gomero, May 9, 2010.

  1. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hmm. About A. cappidocicum ssp sinicum, (introduced by Wallich 1830 as A. cultratum), MOTW writes: "Ernest H. Wilson introduced A. cappidocicum ssp sinicum from China about 1911, and some years later it was brought to England again by the famous Scottish plant hunter George Forrest."

    My well established cap. ssp sinicum was killed in the winter of 08/09, and has not yet been replaced. I don't recall that it leafed out late, and it's not that rare either. Clearly our "sometime friend" Gomero is leading us down some false pistes! :)

    Still hornswoggled, though.

    -E
     
  2. zonebreaker

    zonebreaker Active Member

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    guessing wildly Acer trifidum or tetramerum...
     
  3. Daniel Otis

    Daniel Otis Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Ah. A. cappadocicum sinicum. Very tricky. Have never seen it, I don't think.

    I will have to devise a fiendish conundrum myself.

    D.
     
  4. Daniel Otis

    Daniel Otis Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I just read Emery's reply, which preceded mine (not that I'm competing--heh heh). I thought he had retired for the night, and that I would have time to hunt it down at my leisure. Very clever, Emery--lulling me into a sense of complacency, and then swooping in with the right answer while I was lolling about eating bonbons.:)
     
  5. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    You guys are VERY SMART about all kinds of maples - I would NEVER have gotten it.
    The story of how Gomero & I got this species is very funny and I will share it with my
    forum colleagues if Gomero does not want to tell it so I will defer to Gomero first.
    It will make you all laugh I believe.
    Well done, all of you, on this topic.
     
  6. zonebreaker

    zonebreaker Active Member

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    esveld has it,that was what led me on the wrong path. Good work Emery!
     
  7. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Yes, it is A. cappadocicum ssp. sinicum. Last year (first in my garden) it was also very late but I thought it might be adjustment pains. It is in the ground, and this year I have assumed it is now well adjusted to its new location. It would be interesting to hear from other people growing it. Mine, and Mike's plant, comes from seeds field collected in China by, yes, an American collector, please Mike tell the story. Nursery stock is composed mainly by plants grafted on platanoides understock which may affect leafout behavior.

    As said, this quiz has certainly push readers to brush up on their maple classification knowledge!!!

    Gomero
     

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  8. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Well, I can't take credit for much (except perhaps for getting Daniel to load up on bonbons) since fiendish Gomero led us by the nose to the answer. And of course the wild collected seed is not going to be exactly the same plant as that is sometimes available here.

    I bought it as a small whip from Esveld around 7 years ago, and it is one of the most keenly felt maple losses I've had. It grew into a positively cracking tree, noticed by everyone (which was also due to the central location) for the contrast between the bright red new growth and the shiny long-nosed leaves. The samaras are also vivid red and as showy as on any maple. As shown in Gomero's picture the long red petioles give it a very gracious aspect. In winter the twigs are purple to red and very notable. The only thing to reproach this fabulous plant is its tenderness. In the extreme cold of 08/09 it developed long vertical freeze scars where the by then rather thicker bark peeled back. I tried cutting to undamaged bark but after leafing out (not particularly late!) last year the bark continued to peel until the tree was girdled. It valiantly put out fruit, but my 4 m specimen was dead.

    I cut it down to ground level, and as these things happen in late august the roots started suckering. I don't know if the original tree was a rooted cutting, the shape of the base suggests that, and there is no visible graft mark. The leaves are clearly some form of cappadocicum, I suspect it was grafted to the species and I will have a multi-stemmed cappadocicum in the place. But they did come out quite red, so time will tell what it is.

    I must say I had no idea this was such a rare tree. It was certainly one of the most beautiful maples in the garden, though.

    -E
     
  9. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    I never would have guessed right, well done to those who did. Looks and sounds like a choice maple.

    Emery, I am surprised (and saddened) your plant proved so tender, my sources indicate the native range includes Mongolia and the Himalayas up to 3,300m elevation. Maybe seed grown specimens prove hardier.
     
  10. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    In late January, 2009 Gomero and his lovely wife Sylvie visited me and wanted to go to see
    Quarryhill Botanical Gardens nearby in Sonoma county. When we arrived at Quarryhill, it looked
    quite deserted and we strolled to an out building where we saw many seedlings in 4 inch pots where
    Gomero saw & wanted A cappadocicum ssp. sinicum. I took 1 to have a matching 1 to Gomero and by
    which to remember his visit. We tried to get into the building to pay for them but it was locked so we
    decided to put the seedlings in my car so we would not have to carry them thru the garden and pay for
    them at the end of the visit. We strolled thru the deserted sunlit gardens and finally encountered some soul
    whom we started chatting with. We found out he worked there so we asked him where we pay for the few
    seedlings we wanted and he replied in horror that they were not for sale but rather they were the gardens'
    own germinants for their own planting. Being good acquisitive maple nuts, we argued our case for keeping
    our "purchases" especially pushing the foreign visitor angle which should soften any American although the
    guy did not seem to be buying that approach until finally a light seemed to go off in his head and he suggested
    the compromise of us becoming members which should justify our basic theft! I jumped at the idea ( I am an
    American and had no foreign visitor selling point) and immediately agreed to become a member which I did
    before leaving. I think Gomero might have agreed to surrendering me to servitude as long as he got those plants
    though fortunately it did not come to that. When I look at my plant I always smile with the remembrance of this
    funny story. We were very happy maple nuts when we left lovely Quarryhill with our new 'acquisitions'!
     
  11. mapledia

    mapledia Active Member

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    Hi Gomero, as I recall YOU are the person who once said location is EVERYTHING. Well, in MY location, everything is leafed out except platanoides. What leafs out late in the south of France?
    Hope all is well with you.
    mapledia
     
  12. mapledia

    mapledia Active Member

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    Hi Gomero, glad you solved the puzzle. However, I must say that the last maple to leaf out here (just breaking leaf-bud right now) is acer pseudoplantanus 'Prinz Handjery.' Aren't these maples divine? I must admit our weather here in southern Oregon has been the pits: extreme cold in December, extremely warm in Jan/Feb, and then in Mar/April rain, sleet, snow, hail, so all our usual leafing out periods have been messed up.
    Best to you, as always. Good thread.
    mapledia
     
  13. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    As an addendum to this thread, I was to Westonbirt last week and there the last maple to leaf out is A. tenellum (which I do not have in my garden). Since they also grow A. cappadocicum ssp. sinicum which, surprisingly, is more advanced than mine, then tenellum may also put a claim to be the 'last one'.

    Gomero
     
  14. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    What a nice time to visit Westonbirt. A. tenellum sounds like a lovely maple, I wonder if anyone in Europe has it on offer? Or seed...

    So Gomero, what was the date that your ssp sinicum finally leafed out?

    -E

    P.S. Thanks for the story Mike :)
     
  15. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    It is still in the early stages of leaf out, tiny leaves and still some buds opening.
    I do not know of anybody offering A. tenellum. As for the seeds, what about a visit to Westonbirt third week of October? ;-))

    Gomero
     

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