Lemon_dream and Millet

Discussion in 'Citrus' started by gwenn, Aug 1, 2006.

  1. gwenn

    gwenn Active Member

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    Hi,

    I've read a couple of message from you guys and i think you could help me. Millet, because you know a lot about citrus and you sound really intresting, and lemon_dream because you know a lot about citrus too and you live in Canada like me and you could understand me.

    I'm new here, and i would like first to apologize for my english. I'm not english speaking and i may make a lot of mistakes. I promise you though that i'll try to not do so.

    I am kind of new too with citrus.

    Four months ago, i started a lemon tree, a grapefruit tree and a lime tree.
    So far everything is doing well. They are about ten centimeters tall and the leaves are really green and healthy.

    I live in Canada, in Ottawa and i'm gonna have to grow them indoor during the winter. Do you have any suggestions? Should i buy a Fluorescent lamp to give them some light.

    I was wondering too, what size of pot i should use? Should i use fertilizer, are my plants not too young?

    And finally, lemon_dream, i decide to try the mix you use, 3 parts orchid mix to 1 part soil. I've just made the mix but then i realised that when i water the plant that the regular soil goes away with the water. I fear that only the orchids mix is gonna stay.
    Moreover, the orchids mix is just wood's pieces, hortical carbon and stuff like that, it doesn't look like other stuff (compact earth), is it okay? Can citrus grow and make roots in a mix like thator should i wait until my plants are bigger (real tree) to do that?

    Finally, i was wondering if one of you could tell me aproximatly how fast my tree is suppose to grow because i have nothing to compare. (for example, Ten centimeters after 3 months, 20 after 6... (two centimeters a months), i don't know if it's possible or if it is completly random. Otherwise does one of you have some pictures of differents stages of the grewth of there plants, to compare.)

    Beside my lemon tree growing from seed, i was thinking about buying one in a store to have fruits faster. Do you know where i could buy one in Canada. If it's not possible, how do i know to order one from the US? I read your thread about passing the border with the tree with you with certificate, but i don't have the possibility to go to the US, so is there an other possibility.

    Thanks in advance for your answers, and i have to say that your differents topic about citrus have already teach me a lot, thanks for that too.

    Bye,

    Gwenn
     
  2. lemon_dreams

    lemon_dreams Active Member

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    The soil never runs out from my pots when I water. I use the mix 3-1 orchid to soil. So not sure what to suggest

    As for lights.. yur best off in asking someone else because I dont know yet what I am going to do for lighting. This is my first winter.

    pot size, citrus dont like wet feet and being in TOO big of a pot can cause problems. I have my key lime seedlings (about 6 inches tall) 2 to a pot... pot size 1 gallon... have yet to have root problems

    as for growth... its hard to say. I know my trees ALL vary greatly. I have one key lime thats 13" tall, double what the others are and it was planted the same time. I have flying dragon seedlings that are 1" to 6" tall... all planted the same time. My mature trees... they've all put out a couple of flushes of leaves this summer, not really getting bigger, but definattly getting fuller. Also, being in Canada, our growing season IS different, definatly not as long... so trees may be a bit slower depending on the conditions over the winter.

    I am a newbie to citrus as well, if I could be of more help I would. but, I've only started growing my trees in April. 12 varieties of mature trees, and multiple key limes that I started from trees, and a few other types started by seed.

    as for the grapefruit you started from seed... be aware that it could be 20 years, possibly more till you get fruit... and they'll be VERY tall and each time you prune the tree, you take away the chance at fruiting next year... odds are, without huge ceiling heights, not too likly to get fruit from a seed.

    Good luck with your trees though. Do you have pics?
     
  3. gwenn

    gwenn Active Member

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    Does pics mean picture?

    If yes, no i don't have any but i'm giong to make some soon, but my plants are small because i start from the seed only 3 months ago.

    Tell me, where did you buy your trees?

    All in the US and you came back with them in your car. Or di you know place in Canada where i could find some.

    I found a web site where they say they ship to Canada, do you think it would work?
     
  4. gwenn

    gwenn Active Member

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  5. lemon_dreams

    lemon_dreams Active Member

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    dont buy from them!!!!!

    I got my trees from a friend and also I bought from a man near Vancouver. He doesn't ship. Best bet it to call garden centers around your area and see what they have.

    You CAN order trees from the states but you have to go through a few loops. you diid to get a special certificate and dealing with customs is frustrating. best to bring the trees through the border yourself, but you STILL need to get the certificate from the nursery. Phyto certificate.

    and yes, pics means pictures. sorry for not being more clear
     
  6. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Gwenn, I see you live in Ottawa - nice area. I was a member of the Ottawa Giant Pumpkins Growes Association. Many of the world's record pumpkins are grown in or near Ottawa. Of your three trees, lemon, lime and grapefruit, the two trees that have the best chance for ever giving you fruit are the lemon and the lime. If your lime tree is a Key Lime (bartenders lime) it would produce fruit from seed in approximately 4 years, if you lived in a warm area such as Florida or California, where the tree could be planted in the ground. Growing in Ottawa, Canada where the tree is grown outside only 4-5 months a year and the balance of the year inside your home, it might take 6-8+ years. I doubt that as a container plant growing in Canada you will ever get the grapefruit to produce fruit, however, if you should be successful in getting the grapefruit to bloom and fruit it will be 15-20+ years. In your situation, if you want to grow citrus from seed, I would try various mandarins. One caution, never prune any of your containerized citrus, if you ever want them to produce fruit. I can't help you with a Canadian source of live grafted citrus trees. If you find a good source, you should go into business selling citrus in Canada. I believe such a venture would be very sucessful. The largest killer of citrus, especially small seedlings, is over watering. Water your seedling in the morning, so that the sun's ray will quickly dry the very top of the soil. This will, help to prevent the stem rots. Most seedlings die at 6-8 months of age. Concerning the size of container to grow your trees in, the biggest mistake is usually made not in the type of pot, but by using too large a pot. People think they are doing their trees a favor by giving them a lot of room. But if the tree doesn't grow fast enough to use most of the space, trouble occurs. An oversized pot can become waterlogged easily, and then the plant suffers from lack of air. When you are up-potting a small nearly root bound plant, it is always best not to jump to a size any bigger that 2-3 inches (5-8 cm). You can use additional light if you wish, but I think additional bottom heat is more important, especially during the winter. For the fastest growth year around, extra light in the evening plus bottom heat of 70F (21C) would be best. Foliage growth in citrus (called a flush) ALWAYS follows only after a period of root growth. First your trees will put on new root growth, then when the root growth cycle is completed, the tree will begin to grow new foliage, and when the foliage growth has completed its cycle , additional root growth again begins. Your tree should average three growth periods a year. With additional light and constant soil temperature of 70F you can achive 5+ growth flushes a year. Good luck with your trees. I hope the Ottawa Senators do well this year, except when playing against the Colorado Avalanche. Take Care. - Millet
     
  7. gwenn

    gwenn Active Member

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    Thanks, for the in formations.

    Since i don't have the possibility to go the states, i'll try to find a place in Canada where i can buy citrus, but it's very difficult.

    If you heard about one, let me know, please and good luck with your trees.

    Should i use a fertilizer, for my plants? And if yes wich one?
     
  8. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    You can begin to fertilize your seedling citrus trees when the first two TRUE leaves develop. Use an acid type fertillizer high in nitrogen, and one that also contains trace minerals. The trace mineral Magnesium (Mg) will not be included with any fertilizer. So once ever month or two, dissolve one teaspoon of Epsom Salts in a gallon of warm water, and apply a little to your trees. Try to stay away from urea as the nitrogen source. Fertilize at 1/2 strength once a month, untill the trees get taller. - Millet
     
  9. gwenn

    gwenn Active Member

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    Thanks a lot for all this informations.

    In your previous email, you told me that it was very important to bring additional bottom heat to my plants, how can i do that? And what temperature am i suppose to try to give to the bottom of my plant? And what temperature for the air around it?

    Otherwise do you have an idea of how to know if the pot is big enough or not?

    I am gonna take some pictures of my plants and maybe you could give me you're opinion?

    And finally, about the fact that i am gonna have to have my plants inside, is tere any things i should know? Like bring some humidity? don't keep it too close to the heater? or things like that? Use more fertilizer, or less?

    Thanks again for your help.

    And about Hockey, i love canadiens (Mtl) and the Sens. By the way, i hope José Théodore is gonna have a great season with the Avalanche.
     
  10. gwenn

    gwenn Active Member

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    How could i do to put somes picture in there? I'm trying but it doesn't work.
     
  11. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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  12. gwenn

    gwenn Active Member

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    Thanks Daniel
     
  13. gwenn

    gwenn Active Member

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    Here is a photo I took.
     

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  14. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Your tree look healthy enough. It is true what your friend told you, that citrus are generally shallow root trees, however citrus also put out tap roots that go fairly deep. I always start my seeds in a small container, then when the roots have reached the bottom, I transplant them into a 4x4x14 (4inches spuare by 14 inches deep. This is the common container used by almost every citrus nursery for the trees first year. When the root system fills the 4x4x14 container, I again transplant into a 6x6x16. When the tree has grown to fill the 6x6x16 it is then transplanted into the ground or into the trees "permanent" container. You may or may not require bottom heating. Bottom heating is used to eleminate winter leaf drop, and also to encourage year around growth. A heating pad, that can be controled by a transformer is usually used. Fertilize according to the label directions. When you transplant us a container just slightly larger the the size of the tree's root ball. Planting into a container that is too large is a real killer. About Jose Theodore, he certainly is no Saint Patrick (Patrick Roy). Jose did not show much at the end of last season, with the Avalanche, except his fondness for girls. He is too much of a playboy. His last year playing in Canada, was horrible. - Millet
     
  15. gwenn

    gwenn Active Member

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    Thanks for this informations.

    Do you have a brand you could recommand me for the fertilizer?

    I'm looking for a light too, for the winter to bring some good light to my plants. What kind of light should i use and where can i find that?
     
  16. gwenn

    gwenn Active Member

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    Hi,

    I've jsut re-read your previous post and i noticed that you talkedd about a 4X4X14 pot.

    14 inches deep it's really deep, my pot is 6 inches deep (the one on the pictures). I didn't see any pot this deep, where do you buy that? In a specialise store?
     

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  17. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Gwenn, I purchase all of my containers from Stuewe & Sons, Inc. You can see their web site at www.stuewe.com then look under tree pots. The 4x4x14 is the standard container in the citrus nursery business for the first year plus of a citrus tree to build a good root structure. I use a halide light, which I purchased locally. I don't know about Canada, but in the US they are sold most everywhere that growing supplies are marketed. I know it is difficult to find some items in Canada, so you might have to look on the internet for an American supplier. Good luck. - Millet
     
  18. gwenn

    gwenn Active Member

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    Do you have any picture of some of you're plants?

    And you Lemon_dream?

    That would be nice to see some of your plants and trees.
     
  19. lemon_dreams

    lemon_dreams Active Member

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    I'll get some pictures posted in a bit. Was going to take a few new ones today.
     
  20. gwenn

    gwenn Active Member

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    Cool.

    Tell me, what kind of pots do you use and what kinf of fertilizer?
     
  21. lemon_dreams

    lemon_dreams Active Member

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    I just use 1 gallon pots, or smaller. just the black plastic nursery pots. My greenhouse gave me a ton of them and so far none are big enough to need to go up a level.

    as for fertlizers, I now use fish emulsion with a bit of epsom salts added. and every 2 or 3 times I add in a bit of a liquid root stimulator. not sure if thats a good thing, butI do it anyways. I know my one tree that had some root damage did a lot better once I started using it, was it the supplement? who knows but I dont see it hurting

    heres a couple pics
     

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    Last edited: Sep 17, 2006
  22. James D.

    James D. Active Member

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    I don't want to barge in own your forum, but a good place to buy citrus plants in ottawa is from the market. They come in various sizes and prices, but it will be closing soon and they may be marked down in price.
     
  23. gwenn

    gwenn Active Member

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    You are very welcome in this topic!

    Thanks for the information. Could you be a little more specific, where in the market? Do you know the name of the shop, companie or saler, it wouls be a great help.

    Have you ever bought some from over there?
     
  24. gwenn

    gwenn Active Member

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    Nice picture lemon_dream.

    Here are some of my trees, a lot smaller but i like them anyways.

    I have a couple of question for you guys:

    Since i put them inside they look that good. They don't have any sun light at all because i can't really give them some, so i put a fluorescente light plus a normal one and i leave them on about 12 hours a day, is that ok?

    Secondly, i was wondering about the pots. Two of them are glaze pots and one plastic. They are kind of small (6-6-6) ans not deep, should i change them or are my trees too small yet?

    I give them fertilizer (30-10-10) every two weeks and i don't water them too much.

    About the heat, the room where they are is about 20°C, should i give them a little bit more (they feel cold when i touch the pots cause of the water i guess). Should i put a light that give heat, cause mine are cold one?

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks in advance.
     

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  25. James D.

    James D. Active Member

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    well i think there is only 3 vendors left in the market still selling plants. I was just there on wednesday and they did have some large plants ( about4-5') and some smaller ones ( 1') im not sure on price. They were ponderosa lemons,calmodium orange,verigated pink lemon, and a lime tree,i think. These may or may not still be there. I have not bought any citrus from the market , but I know the mother plants i got my cuttings from came from the market and they are very large and healty.
     

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