LIMBING it Up For *sale* - Marketibility

Discussion in 'Maples' started by mobiledynamics, Dec 11, 2024.

  1. mobiledynamics

    mobiledynamics Member

    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Zone 7A - Long Island
    For those in the know, I have received quite a few mail-order JM, 1G or *2g* Single Leader Plants with maybe a branch left low *to let the trunk get energy* and no branching except for the tip.

    I don't see this type of growth in stuff I have planted.

    Does the grower literally limb the plant for the 2-3 growing seasons he is holding it over.
    I just got another 2 Beautiful thick leader 40" high from soil line single leader JM's . Just this spring I received a different one...difference species, no branching but a nice 60" high leader....

    How is this achieved in such presumably a small growing season:seasons.

    I planted a smaller one this year. It gained good height. Maybe comparable to the 40" high single leader I received today if not higher. Leader is not as thick, but it also shot out a boatload of long side shoots. Should I assume it may be cultivar dependent on overall growth in one season ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2024
  2. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    3,577
    Likes Received:
    3,826
    Location:
    Normandie, France
    Probably more fertilizer dependent. The long shoots you're describing sound like too much nitrogen.

    Although the palmatum complex has two terminal buds, early on one mostly dominates, so you'll see a lot of (regular-type) seedlings at around 12-15 " after a year, with a single stem. The same thing can happen with a graft, especially if you rub off the side-pointing terminal bud and leave only the upright one.

    Long whippy single stalked plants aren't very stable, since if anything happens (say, a mouse, or bacteria) you lose the whole thing. So standard practice in the nursery trade is to cut the whip back 1/2 way, encouraging 2 lateral whips in a narrow fork. These are cut in a similar way the following year, so the young tree quickly puts on height as well as bushiness.

    The problem, of course, occurs later: the narrow forks are weak and so split easily under load like ice, wind or snow. Of course the nursery has long sold the plant, so that's no longer a problem from the production point of view.

    Yes, the amount of growth is dependent on cultivar, but also understock. If you stick a dwarf on very vigorous stock, it will grow faster. If you put a very vigorous cultivar on weak or dwarfing rootstock, it will grow much more slowly.
     
  3. mobiledynamics

    mobiledynamics Member

    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Zone 7A - Long Island
    Thx. I went to the garage to take a look again. It's a single leader, loaded with buds from top to bottom. I'm just -amazed- for these pictums, it's a solid 40" leader, thick, stought. How or why it doesn't;t have any side branching....I dunno if it's cultivar dependent or not (Hoshi yadori and Naguri nishiki)

    Compared to the one I drove 4 1/2 hrs this spring (usugumo). It was extrememly small and -thin- but I wasn't going to leave empty handed for my 5hr+ drive back home.
    It has put on decent growth in a single season with side branching as such. When I receive these single long leaders with no side branching, or maybe one short one down by the trunk.......I just wonder how do they develop:grow these in so that it's literally one straight thick leader
     
  4. 0soyoung

    0soyoung Rising Contributor

    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    382
    Location:
    Anacortes, WA
    These narrow angle forks can usually be eliminated (on young trees, anyway). In other words, one can engineer the structure of their (young) maples to create strong wide angled lower branching instead of living with fragile (though beautiful) close angle trunk branching (maybe I should say 'sculpt' instead of 'engineer').

    In my experience, the widest angle (nearest to perpendicular) is produced by the first flush (in spring). The branching angle narrows in response to pruning that is done later and later in the season.

    Back budding (or budding back down the tree) also tends to be strongest in response to pruning back prior to the first buds bursting to release the flush of foliage in spring. This can be repeated, if necessary, as new buds will appear before the flush emerges.
     
  5. mobiledynamics

    mobiledynamics Member

    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Zone 7A - Long Island
    Oso -

    You just opened Pandora's box. Granted some JM's prefer to be more vert and some more rounded.....
    I have quite a few, still young (7G or smaller) and I have been debating for next season, do I remove some forks in order to aim for a central leader or not. Granted by removing some of these, I'm removing some foliage for the season , but by reducing energy in one, it promotes energy in another. And I haven't come to the conclusion of what is best - central leader or not. I'm new to JM and afaik, I don't what is the correct framework for them - Aim for a single leader or not.. I've seen many with multi leaders JM ---- and I can't decide which is the **proper** framework it should be. Even at the nursery for example, I saw one cultivar, from the same grower. One in a 5G - multi leader format . Their --BOX-- of this same cultivar, now that I type this, was similar to the my OP.

    It was a 24 or 30" Box, single thick leader that had minimal side branching but was a -mature specimen size-.
     
  6. 0soyoung

    0soyoung Rising Contributor

    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    382
    Location:
    Anacortes, WA
    Indeed, @mobiledynamics, but I'm not trying to dictate anything. I am only offering some observations from my experiences with my maples (which includes creating bonsai from nursery stock). I just offered a few tools for sculpting your tree(s) into the forms you wish. The only thing one must keep is the lowest node. everything else is 'negotiable'. If you've got the time, you can make anything you want from what you've got. Of course, the farther what you've got is from what you want, the longer its likely to take to get there (but that's life).
     
  7. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    3,577
    Likes Received:
    3,826
    Location:
    Normandie, France
    I didn't actually realize you were talking about pictum cultivars. 'Hoshi yadori' is a vigorous grower, with relatively long internodes and twigs that quickly put on thickness, whereas 'Usugumo' is a semi-dwarf with very short internodes and limited growth. Which is one reason why it's so hard to graft. Another is that within the Sec Platanoidea (maples with white latex in the sap), many bleed very freely, so there's only a short period in winter that permits grafting. It was recently pointed out by a Japanese friend that the 10 day grafting period for producing these cultivars in Japan is changing because of warming, causing real challenges the nurseries there. 'Naguri nishiki' is also, I believe, a slow growing maple.

    So given identical understock, you would expect to see Hoshi yadori grow much more quickly than Usugumo.
     
  8. mobiledynamics

    mobiledynamics Member

    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Zone 7A - Long Island
    In all fairness, I can't compare Usu to the other 2 , since it came from a different grower in its current -delivery state-. The Usugumo was not worth the trip......even the potting medium that he used ...or root system was not impressed. It has put on a good 8-10 inches this year though

    So here she goes. On the right , is Hoshi yadori and on the right is Naguri. Also for example, I got a Shirasawanum that was at least 65" inches this spring. Same thing, Single leader, not much side branching at all like these 2 examples in this pic. I was just wondering how growers grow this so that it's like this (presuming it is limbed so there there is not alot of side branching to deal with for mail order ) ?

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zg7p...ey=lhszuhyxpv2z2479n7odaqwtn&st=5u96hu1s&dl=0
     
  9. 0soyoung

    0soyoung Rising Contributor

    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    382
    Location:
    Anacortes, WA
    They apply some fert (usually prilled) and simply cram all the pots together as closely as possible and let them run. The array is watered by an overhead sprinkler system.
    Low labor cost.
     
    maf likes this.
  10. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    2,234
    Likes Received:
    2,056
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, England
    Yes, one of the major reasons for lack of branching in forced nursery production.
     
  11. mobiledynamics

    mobiledynamics Member

    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Zone 7A - Long Island
    Heh. Now that you put that into perspective....then I guess these single leaders are just a 2 year or so growth, not *pruned* to grow as a single long -thick:thick'ish- leader

    I was pretty stoked to get a 5'+ ish high single leader Shirasawanum this spring.
    JM's locally are not a great option for me so it tends to be mail order quite a bit.
    On the 7G Shirasawanum I mail ordered last year....it was topped about the 32" height or so....
    It had good wide branching, however, I wish it t was a bit higher before the branching started.
    Thus, I like long leaders....as it allows me the option of when/where/if it's topped
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2024

Share This Page