Makin' a list and checking it twice...

Discussion in 'Maples' started by paxi, Dec 20, 2007.

  1. paxi

    paxi Active Member

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    Ok folks,

    What's on your wish list for 2008?

    Here's mine - keep in mind, I'm a total beginner, so much subject to change depending on what actually comes back this spring!

    Seiryu - Saw one of these upright laceleafs at the Missouri Botanical garden, amazing!

    Ukigomo - Looking for that punch of white in the garden.

    Mikawa yatsubusa - seems like a given :)

    Sango Kaku/Winter Flame - haven't decided here, but given that I might keep it closer to the house to actually see the bark, so leaning towards the smaller winter flame

    Shin Deshojo - beauty spot picked out. Not sure about St. Louis tolerability

    Koto No Ito - how hard is this one to grow? Looks a bit challenging

    Would any of these be particularly shade tolerant? I have a very shady spot between the house and a relatively dense spot of woods with a picture window that I would love to "decorate"
     
  2. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    i've found koto no ito very easy to grow and propagate from seed.
    i recommend Winter Flame over Sango cuz my Winter Flame is
    brighter red and stays more red than my Sango's
     
  3. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I assume that shady means dappled shade and not total shade.
    In that case all your choices will do well but with the following caveats:

    - Fall colors will not likely be outstanding but, in my view, this is a problem only with Seiryu.
    - Bark coloring for Sango kaku (or Winter Flame) will likely be dull.

    Gomero
     
  4. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    This is my Osakasuki in almost total shade this past autumn
     

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  5. paxi

    paxi Active Member

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    I was also worried that I would get little variegation with the ukigomo and it would quickly revert to green. thoughts? Do you think there would be any difference between the campestre carnival in this regard?


    the osakasuki does look nice though....
     
  6. alex66

    alex66 Rising Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    but ,if acer Osakazuki,Seryu,Sango kaku are in cultivation to many years ,is because are beautiful and "easy " cultivation ,this maple grown in my garden very well in zone 9!!pics 1 Sanko pics2 Osa
    not have good pics of Seryu because is first year that i planted this maple,1 is in shade 2 open sun
    Paxi your zone is ?
     

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  7. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    My two Ukigumos are in fairly shaded locations and their variegation is outstanding and reliable. With Ukigumos (as I think it is explained in the thread at the Gallery) the variability is likely to come from the different origins for the plants.

    A. campestre 'Carnival' would also be a good choice for a variegated in shade.

    Whis4ey, is it really in total shade?, I am really surprised.

    Gomero
     
  8. paxi

    paxi Active Member

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    st. louis, missouri - zone 5b or 6 depending on who you ask
     
  9. alex66

    alex66 Rising Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    for your zone is good acer Campestre too,i have Oridono nishiki in total shade ,is very nice with interesting and steady variegation ,have big leaves ,and this is better for shade because is an help for photosintesy ...
     
  10. kaydye

    kaydye Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Paxi,
    I'm north of you in Central Ill. and I am really getting into Campestres. I have two Carnivals in really deep shade, just dappled light and they both have done well. They're still small, but I'm hopeful they will be good since Campestres and Circinatums are rated zone 5 usually, I think. The problem I have with Ukigumo (mine is almost 10 years in the ground) is that I think you have a wide variation in the amount of variegation you will get. I don't know that mine reverts, it just has never had more than subtle variegation, not bright like pictures I see. I used to think it would get more as it got older, but now I just wish I had seen the tree I was getting before I bought it ( I mail ordered). So it seems to be hardy and vigorous, but I look at the pictures other people have online and theirs look so great. I should just get another one, maybe. Koto no Ito is amazingly vigorous. I thought it would be difficult, too. In fact, another linearilobum that has been great is Beni Otake.
    Aren't lists fun...

    Kay
     
  11. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Another campestre that will do well in deep shade is 'Pulverulentum.' It is really pretty in spite of the name. I also planted 'Magic Spring' (yellow variegation mixed with pink in spring) this fall in north of a wall, I think it will stay shady there!

    I'll be adding 'Carnival' and also hopefully 'Silver Celebration' (a carnival offspring) next year.

    In the palmatums I find Beni tsukasa does very well in deep shade, holds it's color well in spring and even shows a little interesting fall color, with dusted variegation.

    -E
     
  12. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    my 2 ukigumos do occasionally miss a year or variegation - or rather the
    variegation can be under-accented in some years. but when they are on,
    they are very lovely. i love my seiryus. they are beautiful vertical laceleafs
    very reliable with heavy seed production and easy germination. i agree with
    pulverulentum and carnival- both very lovely, but for variegation i collect
    variegated acer pseudoplatanus like nizetii, leopoldii, eskimo sunset, patchwork
    etc. i am always struck by the lack of enthusiasm for these beauties among my
    fellow maple lovers. also, i love silver cardinal and wud love to get 2 rubescens
    named summer snow and summer surprise which i have never been able to locate
    in the USA. these are a few of my simple thoughts on favorite variegates
    happy holidays to all forum members
     
  13. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Yes! They really are some of the most beautiful variegated. Some you mention get pretty big (nizetti and leopoldii) but Esk Sunset stays small and in any case responds very well to being cut back. I haven't seen Patchwork for sale here in Europe yet, but I hear it is a bit like Simon Louis Freres. This maple is really gorgeous in spring and continues to evolve in a fascinating way throughout the season.

    The only downside of the variegated pseudoplatanuses (pseudoplatanii??) is the lack of great fall color.

    -E
     
  14. amazondoc

    amazondoc Active Member

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    Thank you SO much for mentioning variegates.

    I am a variegated plant nut who also likes JMs. So far I only have one variegated JM -- Beni Schichihenge. I would love to get more. BUT -- they must be small trees (I do most of my gardening in containers).

    I've been watching a lot of maple auctions on ebay, and there do seem to be many variegated varieties available. But I never trust seller's descriptions, and I don't know enough about the various variegated cultivars to choose between them. Can someone list a few good small variegated JMs for me? I'd appreciate it!
     
  15. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    amazondoc, add to my above reply the following lovely variegates:

    Katsura
    Versicolor
    Asahi zuru (great pinkish-red petioles)
    Sagara nishiki (best yellow sprinkle fu - needs shade)
    acer negundo FLAMINGO and VARIEGATUM

    I also grow most of my maples in pots which keep them much smaller (among other
    advantages), so if you grow to like the pseudoplatanus variegates don't be put off
    growing them in pots even though the literature says they become big trees which
    they do over time in the ground.

    emery, good point about the pseudo's not having that flaming JM Fall color, but their
    yellow Fall color is fine and shows off the white variegation. And yes, Patchwork
    is similar to Simon Louis Frere.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2007
  16. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    Disregard Katsura in above ( I had my moniker on my mind). Katsura is NOT as
    variegate. I was thinking of Karasugawa.
    Also Kasen nishiki , Karaori nishiki (nishiki means variegated) are nice
    Marakumo is 1 of my personal favorites but is a subtle variegate so it can miss some
    years. Also, Butterfly and Waterfall are lovely and very reliable.
     
  17. amazondoc

    amazondoc Active Member

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    Thanks for the great list! Asahi zuru is one in particular that I've seen several times on ebay. I'll make sure to check out all the cultivars you mentioned!
     
  18. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    A. p. diss. 'Filigree' is a nice variegated variety also, maybe worth considering. 'Waterfall' isn't variegated here, but as katsura mentions a lovely tree.
     
  19. alex66

    alex66 Rising Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Oridono nishiki!!
     

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  20. alex66

    alex66 Rising Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Seryu in autum (pics today)and Oridono in autum
     

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  21. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Asahi Zuru
     

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  22. paxi

    paxi Active Member

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    quite pretty pictures of the asahi zuru. I find the white or cream colors in the variegates to be the most striking which is why I was interested in the ukigumo (see the pics in the photo gallery thread, wow! :

    http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=2307&highlight=ukigumo

    With no offense to any of the other posters, Gomero's pictures in particular seem to capture why the name of this tree seems so fitting. Make sure to also click on the image provided by STi - looks so ethereal.

    Can anyone comment on the differences between the ukigumo and asahi zuru?
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2007
  23. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    No comment on Ukigumo, but I had my little asahi zuru in a pot, in a sheltered place where I often kept delicate young plants. Under a pear tree. This fall a pear fell on it and snapped it
    off at the graft. It was a healthy little thing too, ready for planting out this winter....

    Don't leave little maples under fruit trees... :(

    -E
     
  24. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    paxi, as I see it the variegation on Ukigumo is speckled throughout the whole leaf and
    is white. Asahi zuru variegation covers whole sections of a leaf and is white & pink.
    Asahi petioles are pinkish red. I would categorize Ukigumo variegation as much more
    subtle and brushed on than Asahi. I love both.
     
  25. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Except that my own Ukigumo shows traces of pink too :)
     

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