Maple cultivar by another name OR (Synonym).#27 #458 #665 #786

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Acerholic, Apr 19, 2021.

  1. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Yes you can see differences but it's getting people to accept which one is which just go in to the picture gallery on here , five pages with 101 threads , read through them all and when you have finished it's as clear as mud to which is which ??
    Three pics of the dissectums as mentioned as well.
     

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  2. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    I hear what you are saying Ron, but with respect to yourself, if the RHS and the Maple Society confirm a Synonym, then I believe most people will be more than happy with that if they are considering purchasing a particular cultivar. But if a member wants to discuss a Cultivar or Synonym on this thread before making a purchase, then there will be plenty to give their opinion. But at least it paves the way for further investigation.
    This thread is just to let people know that there are official Synonyms to cultivars and cultivars that are just known by another name. ie, sold on the Internet.
     
  3. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Agreed M, this is what I've been hearing on PM's. It's time that this money making idea from unscrupulous suppliers, now has a forum to combat this. I really hope this thread will help.
     
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  4. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    The actual situation will vary in each case. Already with little effort and time spent doing a web search I found that 'Gwen's Rose Delight' and 'Geisha Gone Wild' have independent origins.
     
  5. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    That's what this is all about and if I can quote you in an earlier post.
    So then it becomes a matter of interpretation as to whether or not it should be considered a different or the same cultivar.
    It will then be down to a forum member to make that choice, but at least they have an idea of whether to ignore the thread, or agree and possibly save them money.
     
  6. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    After reading the last 3 pages, I wonder : aspirin or paracetamol ?... ;-D
     
  7. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Lol, a light hearted side to the thread.
     
  8. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    Actually, I was given a small bonsai that I thought was 'Shishigashira', but after some comments on forums, and after buying a "true" Shishigashira, I renamed it 'Crippsii'.

    Now, after reading the thread mentioned by LoverofMaples, I am perplexed...
     
  9. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Hopefully this thread will help members in the future when considering a purchase. The list and discussions has already helped a couple of people. But you are right about being perplexed. And as M @ROEBUK said last night. Just wait until the ghosts and reticulates!!!
     
  10. Shin-Deshojo

    Shin-Deshojo Well-Known Member

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    This thread you created is a brilliant idea and I am really enjoying it.
    It is everyday freshly updated and I am learning and taking notes.

    I find it easier than searching in the cultivars section that are not often up to date and not always cover that subject.

    You are doing a very good job on this forum and I can't imagine how much energy and time it must take you to follow and reply to all the new postings, threads, and pms.

    Don't forget to take time to enjoy your maples in your garden, have a great day D.
     
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  11. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    That is so kind of you to say. It is very much appreciated. I am doing what you suggested and doing a lot of this whilst sat in my garden in the sunshine , drinking coffee and looking at my maples. Not too bad at all !!
    Thanks again I.
     
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  12. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    This is a good one just come in, Linearilobum, Synonym Scolopendrifolium.

    Edit 1. Scolopendrifolium is a synonym of Linearilobum.
     
  13. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    This is where I see the possibility for confusion in the thread. Firstly, I can't tell whether you mean Linearlobubum is a synonym of Scolop, or the other way around!

    Secondly, according to MOW (and the Checklist,) A. japonicum 'Scolopendrifolium' is a synonym of A. palmatum 'Linearlobum.'. But A. palmatum 'Scolopendrifolium' is a synonym (maybe) of 'Shinobuga oka', and 'Scolopendrifolium Purpureum' (all these are illegal names post 1959 BTW) is a synonym of 'Atrolineare'.

    According to Krussman 'Linearlobum' itself is a synonym of 'Atrolineare'. A very knowledgeable and experienced Dutch expert has professed to me personally that they are distinct clones, pointing out completely logically that the first is green, the second red. That works for me, given that I grow 'Linearlobum' and it has not a touch of red. Who is right, who decides?
     
  14. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Hagoromo..... has just dropped into my PM box, thankyou T.
    Sessilifolium a synonym of Hagoromo.
     
  15. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Thanks E, I have just edited my post, to show which one is the Synonym. The list does show this also.
    I agree there are so many out there that came from so many parents, that to tie it down 100% is going to be difficult. But hopefully the list will point members in the right direction to investigate further. It may mean they accept the Synonym as 100% correct in identifying features etc, wherby they realise to purchase another maple that is so very similar to one they already have and is something they wish to avoid, or choose to ignore it, and carry on with a purchase regardless.
    You mention, 'who is right and who decides'. This thread gives members themselves the option to decide with a bit of evidence to help them when looking to buy another maple.
     
  16. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    I had to check this one twice as I've never heard of it. Acer palmatum 'Momenshide', the Synonym though I have seen advertised for sale.
    It is Yushide.
    Does anyone on the forum have it I wonder?
     
  17. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Now here is one, Tsukasa Silhouette which is Synonym of Acer palmatum 'Silhouette', which has a Plant breeders Rights attached to it.
    An Interesting way to get around this exclusivity of propagation.
     
  18. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    Isn't it against the "rules" to mix Japanese and French/English in a cultivar name ?
     
  19. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    I believe you are right Alain. But I have checked the RHS and yes Tsukasa Silhouette is a Synonym of Silhouette.
    I am getting further correspondence in the post to me any day now, so will update the thread accordingly if this is wrong.
    D
     
  20. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Since almost none of the cultivars are registered anyway, it hardly matter whether the names are legal! :)

    None the less, Tsukasa Silhouette was an "upright form" palmatum introduced by the Tsukasa nursery outside of Tokyo, and no doubt translated into English to be sold here. I've heard it does not hold its columnar form very well.
     
  21. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    It seems that they are not, or it can still be discussed.

    Updating all the messages is impossible : I've started an .ods / .xls table that can be amended according to the new info or links we can gather, but it's still sunny outside, and I'll get back to it later. Or tomorrow. Maybe.
     
  22. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Crisppii has been removed from the Synonym list on #27 after the discussions yesterday. I am keeping it updated daily.
     
  23. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    That probably is why this is such a problem now E. But that is interesting for members to hear. Evidence for a successful court battle is also extremely difficult.
     
  24. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    This Synonym is rarely seen but as it's from Atrolineare, then it should be added to the list. Filiferum Purpureum.
    Edit 1, Atrolineare has shown up twice now. Once as a Synonym of Red Pygmy and now Filiferum Purpureum is a Synonym of Atrolineare.
    This is how things get confusing and especially when looking to buy...

    Edit 1. 24th April 2021. Atrolineare is off tbe list as a Synonym of Red Pygmy.
     
  25. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    It's a rare Synonym day today, lol.
    So how about this that I've just been told about.
    Dissectum Variegatum and the Synonym is, Frederici Guglielmi.

    They are coming out of the woodwork now...but it will be added.
     
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