Ponderosa Lemon

Discussion in 'Citrus' started by rudell, Oct 7, 2008.

  1. rudell

    rudell Active Member 10 Years

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    ok...got it ..this would explain why if they are such beautiful plants they are hard to find as you don't see too many citrus plants in households..

    canker picture
     

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  2. rudell

    rudell Active Member 10 Years

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    so I'm assuming you wouldn't want me over for coffee...ahahahha
     
  3. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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    I guess the quarentine on export of citrus plants or parts out of the state of FL does not apply to Canada. Citrus trees from Florida nurseries may be safer than some here seem to think. All citrus propagation in Florida must be done inside a screenhouse with positive outward airflow. All Florida citrus nurseries are regularly inspected and all citrus plants are treated with imidocloprid to reduce chances of infection with greening by the Asian Citrus psyllid after they leave the protection of the screenhouse.

    JK does raise a point about the treatment--imidacloprid last for over a year in soil--and if there is any fruit on the tree in that time it should be removed or not consumed.

    Citrus from other sources do not provide the screenhouse protection from psyllids that may spread greening and psyllids have shown up in CA, LA and TX. We do not know where else they may be yet not detected and it can take years for the greening infection to show up. I think greening has been found in LA--not sure--update--I checked--it is on LA in New Orleans

    Citrus Canker is the other major problem in FL--it is a bacterial disease, not a fungus. It can be seen in infected plants and fruit and all citrus nurseries in FL are regularly inspected and must be located away from potential sources (groves and residential areas).

    I think your trees are probably fine, but I would remove any fruit for at least a year--that will help your tree grow better anyway.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2008
  4. Laaz

    Laaz Active Member 10 Years

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    How the hell is FL shipping trees to Canada legally ? Junglekeeper is correct the tree was produced in FL & was treated with Imidacloprid or most likely Admire Pro. You should not eat any fruit from the tree for at least a year.
     
  5. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Now this brings up yet another point. A citrus tree produces good tasting fruit, therefore when the tree is sprayed with Imidacloprid by the nursery, does the tag advise the purchaser NOT to eat any of its produce for at least one years time? Or does the tag give no safety precaution at all? Further, if as Skeet says, it is legal to ship Florida citrus trees into Canada with US government's approval, but the government strictly prohibits any Florida trees, or even parts of trees, to be sold anywhere in the USA, is this OK to do to Canada? I realize that Canada does not have a Citrus industry, but neither does 95 percent of the states. - Millet
     
  6. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    The discussion in this thread (which I started in an external forum) eventually comes to the conclusion that export is allowed under certain conditions.

    No, there is no warning of any kind on the tag. I wonder how toxic the fruit would be.
     
  7. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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    I don't know Lazz. The USDA quarentine applies to interstate shipping--it may not apply to export to other countries. But like I said, other than a few places like SC (that probably do not have the psyllid) that have a few citrus producing nurseries, Florida's citrus trees purchased directly from the nurseries with the safegards they have in place, may be safer than trees from other states--especially LA where greening has been found, but the nursery safeguards do not exist. Canada does not have a citrus industry to protect--they are probably more concerned about pest that may affect other plants or crops and may be satisfied with a phytosanitary certificate from FL.

    The psyllid does not respect county or state borders or the USDA quarentine, I am sure that they have already spread to areas we do not yet know about--the question is whether or not they carried greening with them and whether the trees in those areas have already been infected.

    I read on the USDA site today that greening can be spread in seeds, so even planting seeds from infected plants can spread the disease.

    Personally, living in NW FL, I am more concerned about trees from LA that enter the state illegally than I am about a neighbor that buys a tree from a FL nursery. It may be just a matter of time, but the more time --the better.
     
  8. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Skeet, do you still have the USDA web address concerning the spreading of greening through seed? If so would you please post the URL? Thanks. - Millet
     
  9. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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  10. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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  11. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Thanks Skeet, the link answered many questions. - Millet
     
  12. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    Thanks for the link, skeet. While the document does not address the toxicity of fruit from a tree treated with imidacloprid, I think one can infer it would be low since the toxicity of the compound itself is low. Perhaps that's why there's no warning on the tag against consumption. Nevertheless, it would be prudent to avoid such fruit.
     
  13. rudell

    rudell Active Member 10 Years

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    so no eating fruit for a year...got it...must tell my friend who's been putting limes from her lime tree in her corona beer. !!
     
  14. Laaz

    Laaz Active Member 10 Years

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    From what I have read so far, citrus with the greening disease abort their seed.
     
  15. joefrank

    joefrank Member

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    10/12/2008


    Hi Everyone..


    Hello from Santa Fe , NM , USA. Your tree must be great,
    there's a nursery in Danielson Conn that has a Ponderosa Lemon tree which
    is over 100 years old, I' ve seen it in person. They have a great site and
    they also have a catalog: http://www.logees.com
    Attached is a photo of my miniature orange and recently I bought a improved
    Meyer Lemon tree, it now has 12 small lemons and getting more flowers..



    Cheers.....Joe
     

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  16. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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    Welcome to the forum Joe--nice looking tree. One question, is that tree in Conn a container tree or inside a greenhouse?
     
  17. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Logee's does offer quite a few items of interest for sale, but the vast majority of the items that they offer are extremely small, and offered in 2.5 inch containers. So if you purchase a citrus tree (rooted cuttings) from them you better be young. The owner is, more or less, a close friend with Citrus Joe. BTW, there is a containerized citrus tree (Sour Orange) growing at the Catholic Convent in New Jersey that is now 112 years old. This tree was brought to the United States, during the last century, by the Sisters as a rooted cutting taken from an in ground citrus tree that is presently still growing in Rome at the Dominican Convent of Saint Sabina that is now past 800 years old. I have a seedling growing from the 112 year old tree. My seedling would be a direct relation ("son/daughter") to the 800 year old Saint Sabina tree. The Saint Sabina tree is BY FAR the oldest citrus tree that I have ever heard of. In "The Citrus Industry" on page 46 it states that it is NOT altogether an impossibility that the root should be the actual survival of a tree originally planted around the year 1200 in Saint Dominic's time. Citrus trees under cultivation normally do not greatly exceed 100 to 125 years. - Millet.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2008
  18. joefrank

    joefrank Member

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    Skeeterbug....


    Contrary to what has been said I'm not a friend of
    the owner of Logee's Greenhouse, I like them because I have been dealing with
    them for 30 years, I used to drive from New York City for 3 1/2 hours just to
    go buy plants, it was a great day trip and they have ten greenhouses..I just got
    as a birthday gift from my niece ( Because she know's I'm a Logee nut ) a Citrus
    " Citrus Media Etrog, " Citrus Othelite Orange," and a Citrus Sweet Lime." All are
    doing well. Recently I bought at Home Depot a Improved Meyer Lemon Tree , it
    has 12 small Lemons on it and new flowers coming. I do know you can buy a
    Ponderosa Lemon Tree in a 4" Pot, I've seen in person their 110 year old
    Ponderosa Lemon Tree in their green house, the Lemons are huge !..I have to
    order one... I would love to buy a Seville Orange Tree. What kind of trees do you
    have ? I post later a photo of the Meyer Lemon...


    Cheers.Joe
     
  19. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Joefrank wrote: .........."Contrary to what has been said I'm not a friend of
    the owner of Logee's Greenhouse"...................

    ========================================

    Joe, When I mentioned that Logee's owner, is a friend of "Citrus Joe", you must have thought that I was referring to yourself. I was not talking about you (Joefrank) at all, I was talking about a well known container citrus grower that is known by the name of "Citrus Joe." Evidently you do not know Citrus Joe (from Colorado). Many people on this forum, and on the other citrus forums, know Citrus Joe. Citrus Joe, is a large collector of containerized citrus trees, which he has been growing for quite some time. Anyway, sorry for the confusion, as I was not referring to you, please excuse, perhaps I should have been more clear. Best regards, - Millet
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2008
  20. Laaz

    Laaz Active Member 10 Years

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    Byran at Logee's sent me the variegated Tiger orange a couple years ago. I haven't seen it listed in their catalog. He said it was a Tiger "naval" orange, however of all the fruit I have on the tree none have a naval. Anyway Logee's does have some quality plants, be it small. Tiger orange in link below.

    http://citrus.forumup.org/viewtopic.php?t=3404&mforum=citrus
     
  21. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    The Royal Horticultural Society refers to the variegated calamondin as x Citrofortunella microcarpa 'Tiger'. Could that be the plant in the pictures? It's difficult to make out the scale without a reference.

    BTW, this thread is now OT.
     
  22. Laaz

    Laaz Active Member 10 Years

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    Not a chance these are full size oranges.
     
  23. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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    JoeFrank, I have over 20 varieties on my inground citrus trees (it was 7 trees, but I just planted 3 FD seedlings inground--will graft later). I will get fruit from 11 varieties this yr. My biggest tree is a Lisbon lemon with about 10 varieties on it--I also have several mandarins, gft, oranges, miewa.
     
  24. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Just a quick comment: I was hoping that this
    Citrus forum would be the leader in the UBC
    BG forum to end all presumptuous or “computer
    speak” abbreviations.

    Don't assume that a lot of others know that FD
    refers to Flying Dragon or that Meiwa is variety
    of Kumquat. Even some of us that do know
    what is meant, do not always pick up on the
    context usage of the shortened version soon
    enough. Look at it this way, people that have
    had these plants for many years never use
    abbreviations and seldom use shortened names
    (I have done this on occasion myself) as some
    names such as King and Nova, as examples,
    correspond to other Citrus forms other than
    Mandarins. King is also a known as being a
    Tangor (just like Temple is an Orange and
    Temple is also name for a Tangor) and Nova
    first was used as a name for a Tangelo. The
    confusion comes later when we see a Nova
    Mandarin label used for fruit sold in the stores
    that have Ortanique (a Tangor) stamped
    in block letters on the sides of the cartons.

    In regards to the Ponderosa Lemon, the
    Florida plant is not the same as the one
    that has been grown out here, or at least
    that one I found for some collectors back
    in the late 80's, early 90’s. Our Lemon is
    more elongated in shape, much less bulbous
    near the basal end. Instead is wider
    across in the middle of the fruit and
    tapers down in width to both the apical
    and bottom ends of the typical fruit.
    Stretched out, towards the polar ends,
    is a better term for it in comparison.
    The commercially grown fruit of the
    West Coast Ponderosa Lemon retains
    more likeness in fruit taste, pulp texture
    and rind color to a Eureka Lemon than
    the Florida form Ponderosa Lemon that I
    have been around does. I do feel the
    Florida Ponderosa Lemon shows more
    Citron character than the form we have
    had for a while now out here does.

    Jim
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2008
  25. joefrank

    joefrank Member

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    10/14/2008


    Laaz..


    The photo I aded to the thread is a miniature orange, I shot
    it close up digiatl camera 8.1 pixels , " Kodak Easy share Camera." It takes great
    photos...Here it is full view..


    Cheers..Joe
     

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