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Discussion in 'Maples' started by krautz33, Oct 2, 2008.
that was very good, alex&Kaitain, very good indeed!
neologism is quite a word to use! well done
Well, I never thought I would be famous for creating a word! Is there a Pulitzer Prize or something for it?! LOL! I'll take some free maples instead!
In order to accomodate this request I think its best we break this off into another thread. Please go to the new thread called 'Maple Gardens' to continue this discussion.
My new babies:
Koto ito komachi (I hope - please tell me what you think)
Peaches and Cream
Otto's Dissectum (a baby baby not pictured)
OH MY GAAWSHH!! You done good, Winter!!!
I like the structure of your aratama in particular. Looks like you're due for a great spring!
good choice!koto ito komachi is beautiful!but i don't see many different to Koto ito,ok my Koto ito komachi is small and,Koto ito big.......
Finally my will power collapsed and I went ahead and grabbed a few trees.
'Kinshi' aka 'Kansai koto no ito' pg 167, Yano
am considering Octopus anyone have strong feelings about this one?
Not familiar with Koriba or Kinshi. Can you post pics?? Sekka yatsubusa is on my wish list! Lucky dog!!
Plants aren't here yet and when they arrive may not have any leaves. You can find 'Koriba' in Van Gelderen pg 142 and 'Kinshi' is in Book for Maples under 'Kansai koto no ito'.
Spring pics coming.
My two purchases today:
Koto no ito
even though I already have one of each of these, they are 2 and 4 year grafts and I found these at an attractive price and so made an effort to boost the economy and add to my collection. Both are in 15 gal containers - will probably plant next Spring.
K4, Paxi, thanks. I'm definitely looking forward to Spring.
Poetry - I know what you mean about the will power collapsing. Congrats on your choice acquisitions.
Swanny - Very pretty indeed (and I like how you labeled the trees on the photo)
Thanks for your empathy.
The endless introductions coupled with the viral like compulsion to chase hard to get plants leaves a vulgar taste in my mouth. Does anyone else feel that accumulating cultivars w/o restraint goes against the aesthetic of JM gardening?
Anyway I succumbed and I am jubilant to have tracked down 'Koriba'.
Swanny, can't go wrong with a deal on those two. I was just at HD scoping out deals and found a big, bushy 5 gal Juniper conferta 'Blue pacific' for $10.An excellent plant for seashore ground cover.
Well, yes and no. The proliferation of cultivars is inarguably having ill effects. Consumer hunger fuels the proliferation. But it also stimulates the passion of novice gardeners (like myself) and strongly encourages them to learn in spite of themselves. And I agree that restraint is a major tenet of Japanese style gardening. But how do you define Japanese Maple gardening as it is not always the same as Japanese style gardening? And how do you define restraint?
Regarding JM gardening...
Personally, I absolutely adore the JM's (obviously I'm hooked) and I love some of the principles and techniques I've been able to learn so far from Japanese gardening. But I don't like red bridges or pagodas. I also hate bamboo. Nothing against them in someone else's garden, just not my thing. I don't feel that to have a "true" JM garden I have to adopt everything sterotypically Japanese. My personal style of JM gardening will, I hope, turn out to be a NW homage to some Japanese principles and ideas (and lovely trees). But I will plant, in one area in particular, as much color and texture as I can cramm in that will appeal to my eye. And I'm going to stuff them in front of evergreens and probably prune every year to keep it clean looking. But that way I won't see the neighbors, EVER, which is the primary goal.
I have an acre. Only 1/3 of that acre is currently usable. I'm trying to plan very carefully which cultivars get accepted into my spaces. And even exercising what feels like restraint to me, I'll probably end up with a lot more trees than someone with a city lot. And my husband, not to mention my mother-in-law, think I've gone off the deep end. And I'll never have as much room for as many JM's as someone with 20 acres. So restraint in each of those cases will look markedly different.
But I think I know what you mean about the bad taste. I think it's like the morning after hang-over for alcoholics. I sense you need an intervention. Maybe you, too, should join "Maples Anonymous" with K4 and myself. Let me leave you with these words of ?wisdom? ...
Day by day, tree by tree, it's all getting better and better.
Restraint has no meaning to a Maple Zombie! :-)
Seriously, I have no affinity for "Japanese" gardening, much like Winter, nor do I feel a compulsion to create a certain "style" for my garden. My garden is my own style. The plants I plant there are ones I like because - well, I just like them! I've loved maples long before I had any JM cultivars. I've planted quite a few Red and Sugar maple cultivars on my property. I also love Oaks and have planted a few rare species as well. I have a number of Hostas, ornamental grasses, and absolutely adore conifers (next to acers and rocks, they are my favorites). I have hundreds of daffodils of every size and description scattered all about my property (deer won't touch them) and will continue to collect them by the dozens because I love springtime so much. It just happens that JMs fit so many gardening niches that its easy to become enchanted by them and to focus on them - they're amazingly adaptable and interesting. If they had originated in Argentina, I would be foaming at the mouth for some 'Acer argentiniana' cultivars. Country of origin dictates nothing to me.
Each of us has their own particular circumstance to deal with in terms of gardening space, taste, etc. After living in apartments or suburbia all my life, I suddenly found myself in the country with a whole forrest I could call my own. Not everyone gets or even wants that kind of opportunity, but it fell in my lap and so I'm going for it!! Its not just about the trees, its about getting outside and building things and creating things that are beautiful. Its watching the seasons change, the plants grow, and the delightful discoveries you never anticipated. A few years ago we had a terrible ice storm where freezing rain sticks to the trees and covers everything with ice. They're very trecherous! But this time something magical happened. The temperature was just right so that the ice formed 3--4 inch icicles on all the branches. The next morning was cold but crystal clear, and the sun shone through those icicles just like prisms in a chandelier. The effect was breathtaking! Imagine an entire forrest of 100ft tall chandeliers, all glittering at once in the sun!! I cannot adequately describe it, nor can cameras capture the effect! Stunning is, at best, an understatement!
Today was another of those 'magical' days. Fall has come late to the Tennessee hills, but it has come like no other! The sky was a perfect turquois blue, crystal clear; and set against it was an entire forrest literally luminescent with color! The maples, hickories, black gum, dogwoods - even the oaks this year were simply on fire with color! The entire forrest looked like a giant stained-glass window - the tree trunks and branches making black silhouettes against the light. Magical!! Then I looked at my little collection of JMs and saw that they were, though small, perhaps the most stunning of all. Omurayama was spectacular! Red Spider was neon! Oshio Beni an indescribable color of orange-peach! And at that moment I was grateful for my obsession! I can't wait to have a 20ft Oshio Beni illuminating the forrest border, or my Omurayama glowing like a street lamp beside the drive. I am far from finished with my collection - FAR from it! There is no vulgar taste in my mouth - only a hunger for more beauty and inspiration; and hopefully many more "magical" days like today. :-)
Wow thanks for the thoughtful replies guys. I feel everything you're saying.
Still,the idea of a garden composed of 100's of man made plants, doesn't sit well with me. Also the consumerism reflected in the amazing number of new introductions gets my goat. Constantly scheming on new plants/acquisitions...... no, I want to get away from that.
With regard to Japanese Gardens Jake Hobson says that gardeners in Japan don't plant cultivars*.
*Niwaki pg 109
Gardeners in Japan probably couldn't afford cultivars :)
Anyway ... all cultivars were born out of chance seedlings which were different.
In Japan they have all they need of such trees
My latest venture in planting a little Japanese maple 'forest' concentrates on seedlings
The colours in Springtime and in Autumn are every bit as spectacular
And they are FREE :)
I hear you. When I first moved here I was totally into the "natural" thing, but after having been surrounded by it for so long, its refreshing for me to have something different. And I don't consider JM cultivars "man made". The vast majority of them are natural mutations or crosses. We're just lucky enough to know how to replicate them so that anyone can enjoy them. I think that's awesome!
So, there's room for everyone in this. Those who want to be "purists" and those want lots of cultivars. Those who want an authentic Japanese garden, and those who just want to garden. Whatever makes you happy, right?
Oh yes, and I would have to take issue with Hobson. There are HUGE nurseries in Japan! You can go on-line and see all the trees they sell. Is he saying they don't sell any cultivars there ?? I think not!
I have no quarrel with aceretums or any type of collectors garden. I've visited Ed's and Mike's garden and both are marvelous examples of large mature collections.
My beef is with the more is more aesthetic in the context of maples and gardening.
K4, Hobson says:"In the west, gardeners might fill their Japanese-style gardens with a collection of different Japanese maples, some dwarf or weeping, others dissected or variegated. Not so in Japan, where plant collecting is left to botanists rather than gardeners........what could be less natural than a collection of manmade cultivars?" pg109
Hobson's book is informative, has nice photography and it is not expensive.
Like I said, either Hobson is missing something, or Japan must have more Botanists than you can shake a stick at!!
Why don't we ask some of the Maple Society membership to check it out when they go to Japan in a few days? They're scheduled to visit a number of JM nurseries while there. I'm sure they can find out how these places stay in business.
I got this book a few months ago from Amazon. I was very disappointed about what I was expecting from this book -basically I just was interested for info about how to prune my JMs in a "Japanese way") and I was thinking that this book had the answers. However, surprisly it only has just ONE single page dedicated to this theme. The rest 99,5% is dedicated to conifers. (Don’t get me wrong, I like conifers, in fact I have several in my garden) but I didn't found this book as valuable addition for maple collectors. (I believe that the book must be called "Niwaki for Conifers and other surrounding plants").
However, for someone that wants to know the point of view of traditional Japanese gardens (according to the very personal point of view of Mr. Hobson); or to learn how to "prune" conifers, or how to make coping/pollarding trees; probably the book could be interesting. (Probably it is the reason why this book is found very cheap in Amazon).
Maybe take another look at the book. While there is plenty of discussion of broadleaf evergreens the book only devotes one chapter to conifers. Grasping the concepts that Hobson sketches out is useful in pruning any plant in a Japanese style.
Also it's doubtful that his view is "very personal". His book details actual workday practices in a Japanese nursery. His references are historical and anecdotal along with day to day observations. Also I believe he's garnered much respect with this book. The PHS is a believer. Lastly the price is no indication of the value of a text, Vertrees goes for $12-$15 on ebay
When I saw that it wasn't a Japanese Pruning for dummies type manual I was a little disappointed too. I started using some of the techniques and now I'm a fan.
Poetry, I agree with you about the acnedotal narrative of the book and the interesting techniques and principles for pruning trees, but simply the book is too much centered in pines and conifers, (just look for the pics along the whole book).
And you're rigth the book is really good for this genus but in the same way; I was expecting to find the similar deep explanations and techniques for pruning Maples in particular. It is just that this book didn't reach my expectations, neither some of the comments of Mr. Hobson. (Probably the japanese nursery where Mr. Hobson worked was specialized in pines and not in JMs). That's all.
I got the same book from the library, and am learning a lot about pruning other evergreens and broadleafs. I wish it had more on pruning Japanese maples, but I did learn something that I had missed before from that one picture of the hand with some fingers curled and some flat.
Beautiful trees. I love the structure of the Aratama, I have a Shaina that is almost similar though I had to prune it quite a bit from a bush.
I like the flat container it is in, it shows off the tree a lot better than a tall regular container.