spacing for Osakazuki+Ichigyoji+Hogyoku

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Viet922, Nov 5, 2007.

  1. Viet922

    Viet922 Member

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    there are a lot of maple sources that recommend that we should plant those 3 trees together to maximize the falll effect. However, none has recommended the optimal spacing to get the best fall effect. You don't want them planted too far apart, because that would defeat the purpose of leaf interplay. Too close, they would look like a single tree with three grafted cultivars.
    Has anyone here seen the aforementioned trees together?

    I have all three cultivars potted. They will be ready for permanent location next spring.
    I am thinking about 8 feet apart planted in a circular fashion.
     
  2. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Difficult to say on spacing, each tree mentioned will likely spread more than 20'-25' in as many years if allowed space. Have noticed 'Osakazuki' and 'Ichigyogi' colour in the fall near the same time in sun, although the 'Ichigyogi' seems like it may have better colour longer with some shade and more shelter from wind. Expect 'Hogyoku' may colour near the same time also with similar exposure, one here in partial shade colours around the same time as the other 2 in full sun. A different 'Osakazuki', in shade, begins colouring about 3 weeks later than the one in full sun. Think they will tend to grow more upright if close together, so you wouldn't get the same branching style as spaced further apart, depends on what you prefer . Young trees move easily though, generally have been figuring on a year of recovery for each inch of trunk caliper here with 2''-3'' trunks, and as decent a root ball as can be easily handled without a machine. A lot of variables to affect the growth rate of course, but if you have the patience to let them spread would think the trees would do better and look nicer, particularly during winter when the branch style of each can look attractive. Maybe dwarfs, dissectums, or low growing cultivars mingled with the larger cultivars would be fine if space is a concern. Seems to take some experimenting to get the trees placed properly to get the effect one likes, but worth the research and observing their habits as you're doing. Placed a 6'-8' A. p. 'Katsura' and 'Shinde shojo' close together once and it was terrible in the spring, orange and pink, not thinking. 3 single stemmed aged tall trees in Nitobe Memorial Garden { a Japanese garden at UBC } spaced about 4'-6' apart { if memory serves me } look great, nicely shaped trunks and branching, forming a high canopy. Depends on the cultivars used, pruning, style, and effects desired. Others may have different experience and opinions to share, and the trees may grow differently in your location than here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2007
  3. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I fully agree with Chimera. I insist on the fact that, with many maple growers like myself, most cultivars change place a few times before one is satisfied with the final result in terms of shape, color, proximity to another plant, .....

    Gomero
     
  4. winterhaven

    winterhaven Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I am currently taken with the idea of a Harvest Orange, Ichigyoji, and Osakazuki combination. As I understand it, they all three have the same leaf shape because Harvest Orange is a sport of Osakazuki (I think Harvest Orange must be a brand new cultivar because I've only seen it offered online at wholesale nurseries and at one local retail nursery).

    Here is my concern: does Ichigyoji really color yellow in the fall? Looking at pics on this forum I'm seeing orange colors and Vertrees 3rd edition and Maples of the World both indicate orange (According to Vertrees 3rd edition Ichigyoji "is an intense brilliant yellow or yellow-orange...." According to Maples of the World, "it is orange-yellow... probably deserves more attention, but better-known cultivars such as 'Heptalobum or 'Hogyoku' fulfill the same functions in a garden").

    Does that defeat the purpose of adding the orange cultivar to the triad, whether it be Hogyoku or Harvest Orange?

    To those of you that have planted a triad, do you feel in retrospect you may have been better served by a pairing? Or is there enough difference in the coloration of Hogyoku that Ichigyoji was worth it in addition?
     
  5. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Yes, very noticeable difference , 'Hogyoku' is a very vibrant pumpkin like orange and 'Ichigyogi' more subtle here. A.p. 'Aureum', 'Sango Kaku', 'Aoyagi', and 'Kihachijo' seem to be good reliable yellows. I can't remember offhand which ones would colour up near the same time to get the effect you would like. Seems usually groups of 3 or another odd number look good together, would think 2 of the same cultivar may look better as a more formal setting.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2008
  6. winterhaven

    winterhaven Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    That's great information. Thank-you.

    I'm considering picking up a Harvest Orange tomorrow. If I do, I'll watch it in comparison to the Hogyoku I put in the ground today. I saw the Harvest Orange in the fall and it looked fairly vibrant, so if it is as vibrant as the Hogyoku next fall then the following Spring I will look for an Ichigyoji to complete the triad I'm planning. If not, I'll try one of the others you suggested.
     
  7. winterhaven

    winterhaven Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I posted the questions in the Ichigyoji thread in the photo gallery. I was just blown away by a couple of pictures of Aocha nishiki. I think I'm going with Harvest Orange, Osakazuki, and Aocha nishiki.
     
  8. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Hi, not sure what kind of an effect you are working on, but may be worth keeping in mind that various cultivars can have their best fall colours about 2 weeks to a month or more apart and that can vary some from year to year. Just in case you are trying to get different colour contrasts between the trees. Lots of fun and easily moved anyways, when young.
     
  9. winterhaven

    winterhaven Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Crud. Hadn't thought that far ahead.

    Also, I just noticed that Aocha nishiki only gets to about 9 feet and the others get much larger. Which could, in theory, work as I'm planting next to a hill where the yellow will be on the rise, but if the color timing is off, argh.

    Hmmm. Back to the planning stage.

    Thanks for the heads up.
     
  10. winterhaven

    winterhaven Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    K4 chimed in that his Aocha nishiki and Osakazuki colored up at the same time. I think I can make them all work together.
     
  11. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Vertrees was apparently hot on regular pruning in order to maintain a collection, talked about it a bit in his book. In a landscape successfully planted to instead produce a restful scene all trees not in groupings of one kind would be used as widely spaced accent points, each with plenty of room around it.

    Roots of trees and shrubs aren't actually meant to be cut. It's better to avoid digging them up and moving them around repeatedly whenever possible. The older they are the less able they are to bounce back well.
     
  12. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Yes , many approaches to reaching each individuals desired effect. It's interesting how many of the old Japanese styled gardens can seem so peaceful some seasons , then so exhilarating with the fall colours.
     
  13. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Notice with those a tendency to avoid many different kinds of plants in the same view, as well as highly unnatural-looking cultivars. The background of the exercise includes emulation of natural scenes in high mountains. Bonsai is a way to have dwarfed trees like those at high altitudes at low ones.
     

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