What's this then?

Anyone going to try?

 

I'll take a shot, is it Pinus patula? Joe

 

Nope, sorry!

 

weeping eastern white pine?
ka Pinus strobus pendula

 

pinus coulteri
big cone pine?
or
Pinus armandi

 

Pinus palustris?

 

Nope, nope . . .

 

Pinus rigida?

Let me answer that question, Nope.

 

Himalayan pine, Pinus wallichiana? I wish it was hardier here, I think it is just borderline but they were are some nice ones at the H.C. Locks in Seattle.

 

Sorry, two more "no"s!

Dee - how far west in WA? If you're west of the Coast Range you should be able to grow P. wallichiana no trouble; in the Seattle - Olympia - Kelso valley, it would probably be OK (and certainly so if you used one of the hardier Afghan origins). East of the Cascades, no chance.

 

"No chance"? One in Spokane was 86' high in 1988. Might be some variation due to provenance.

 

Sure it isn't P. x schwerinii, like e.g. the "P. wallichiana" at Morton Arb. and the Arnold Arb? I bet it is.

PS weren't you asking for tricky ident questions? Aren't you going to have a go? There's enough there to ident this one.

 

I of course expected you would say it must be the hybrid. I don't remember the fine details of the tree myself, A.L. Jacobson and R. Van Pelt are listed as nominators. As I remember it there is nothing about its general appearance to send up a red flag.

 

pinus sabiniana

 

Sorry, no . .

I'll add a pic of the cone it was grown from in a few hours

 

Perhaps your clue suggests that you chose quite a rare specimen. It appears to me to be a pine with long, bluish needles in clusters of three, so I thought that you offered a young specimen of Pinus canariensis, which I have never personally seen, but which I understand has green needles when a little older.

 

It looks like Pinus patula, so it's probably another Sec. Oocarpae species.

 

Sorry, two more "no"s . . .

Here's the cone the seed came from - let's see if anyone can get it now (when clicked on, approx life size)

 

aleppo pine pinus halepensis

 

Sorry, no again!

 

aaaaaaaaaarrrggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

pleaase put me out of my missery someone!!

pierrot

 

A young Pinus pinceana, rare in cultivation and considered as possibly an endangered species in Mexico.

 

We have a winner! Pinus pinceana it is!

Grew it from seed I collected in Mexico a few years ago. It is listed by IUCN as "Lower risk - near threatened".

On identification, the following points clinch it:
1. The needle sheath being deciduous (fully fallen on the top right needle fascicle, and starting to drop on several other fascicles). This counts out all but two 'hard' pines (subgenus Pinus; the exceptions being P. leiophylla and P. lumholtzii). Of the species suggested, this removes Pp. patula, coulteri, palustris, rigida, sabineana, canariensis, halepensis; these all have fully persistent sheaths.

2. The needles being in fascicles of 3. Most people spotted this, but it does count out all the 'white' pines (Pinus sect. Strobus). Of the species suggested, this removes Pp. strobus, armandii, wallichiana; these all have 5 per fascicle.

3. The young needle fascicles (left edge of pic) staying connate (the three needles stuck together) until they are full size. Very few pines do this, nearly all of them in the pinyon-foxtail pine grouping. This excludes the two hard pine exceptions above, Pp. leiophylla and lumholtzii; these both separate their needles well before the needles reach full length

4. The needle length and their being very slender. On needle length this counts out the foxtail pines (Pp. aristata, balfouriana, longaeva), and nearly all the pinyons, while the slender needles count out Pp. bungeana and gerardiana. This leaves the following options out of all pines:
Pinus pinceana: needles in 3's
Pinus nelsonii: needles in 3's, but remaining permanently connate, not spreading at all, and also not pendulous
Pinus rzedowskii: needles in 4's and 5's
Pinus maximartinezii: needles in 5's
Pinus squamata: needles in 5's

Thus, P. pinceana it is.

Some photos I took in the wild:
http://www.pinetum.org/PhotoMPF.htm

Michael

 

This does look like it may have stomata concentrated on one side of the needle (unlike Jelecote pine), cones with large seeds (pine nuts). Van Gelderen/Van Hoey Smith show a weeping pinyon with upright needles (and shoots), but it must be called weeping for some reason.

 

Hi Ron,

The branches as well as the needles weep - look at my pics from Mexico (edited into above post)

PS I always thought Jelecote was a brand name of a non-drop gloss paint? :-)