which one to choose?

Discussion in 'Maples' started by tugo, May 16, 2008.

  1. tugo

    tugo Active Member

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    Dear friends,
    I am quite a new member to UBC forums. Have been reading thousands of valuable information put in by you and trying to absorb them. But as you may agree, most of the information is too heavy for a beginner and needs to be supported by self practice also. Till now, thanksfully I was successful with almost all my beloved plants but I cannot risk the next. Therefore I will ask your kind help.

    Acer Palmatum, my dream plant, known very little around here (Istanbul/Turkey/) They are newly imported and very expensive compared to my budget.

    After organising well with my garden, now it is time that I get one and be very happy.

    Today, I found two young plants of different types (sorry nor me neither the supplier knows more details like their taxons etc.) but I am hesitating to buy it, not only the moneywise but also I will be very unhappy if I buy a wrong one and cannot take care of it. To loose my dream.

    Could you pls be so kind to tell me the genus from the pictures and also your opinions if they look healthy or not and which one ( better) I have to buy ?
    I have read all of your posts but ofcourse I am still not in a position to take care of this plant without getting specific information from you.

    My garden hardiness zone 9 ( winters worst -5 summer highest +40 Celcius), have two parts free, one side full sun all seasons and the other part is partial sun in summer but whole shade in other seasons. Soil is quite heavy clay and after 25 cms depth, starts the rocks.
    Thanking you in advance.
    Tugrul


    Option1.JPG option 1

    Option1t.JPG

    Option2.JPG Option 2

    Option2t.JPG
     
  2. mattzone5b

    mattzone5b Active Member

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    You definitely have found 2 cultivars of acer palmatum. The top one is a weeping type dissectum, appears to be acer palmatum 'crimson queen' or similiar dissectum. It looks healthy overall but I personally prefer a nicer looking graft, high or low graft is your preference. Personally, I would hold out for a nicer graft. Although this plant can take a good bit of sun, both trees would benefit from some protection from winds and shade for at least some of the day. You may experience a bit of burn on the leaves occasionally but the tree should be ok in a semi-sheltered location. The dissectums only grow around 5-10 ft(1.5-3meters) tall so that is something to consider.

    The second tree appears to be Acer Palmatum 'Bloodgood' or similiar cultivar which is a hardy tree, could take a bit more harsh conditions than the dissectum but grows over twice as large eventually. This tree appears to be healthy and from what I know of this tree would be more suited for full sun than the other.

    After you described your soil type, I thought this tree should be container grown for awhile or planted in a raised bed. The drainage wouldn't be good on clay soil. What is the rainfall like there? Heavy rains far apart or regular light rains, etc.?


    Forgive my ignorance about your region for I have only visited Ismir once but how is the humidity there? Do you have 4 distinct seasons? Also, do you have sand storms or high winds?
     
  3. paxi

    paxi Active Member

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    Both seem to be attractive plants. You will get more specific info regarding the cultivar from others on the board but option one seems to be a typical but beautiful red leaf dissectum - crimson queen, tamuke yama and red dragon are some of the most common. Seems to be more sun tolerant than most, and my attempts to kill all three plants have been unsucessful. I don't know anything about option #2 your best bet will be to read the "how to plant a maple" faq at the top. The three keys seems to be:

    1) planting on a half mound with good drainage
    2) Site selection: morning sun, afternoon shade and protection from hot winds
    3) Keeping the soil moist but not waterlogged

    Don't be too intimidated by these plants. The look delicate but they are suprisingly hardy - this comes from someone with a clear brown thumb. Good luck
     
  4. tugo

    tugo Active Member

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    Really amazing to have such help based on self experience as well the must facts.

    Thanks paxi you have encouraged me, hope I will also be unsucessful to kill mine too. Will take care of your points. Have booked them till tomorrow mid day to choose one. Will keep you informed.

    Thanks also to you dear mattzone5b. ─░zmir has mediterranean climate but Istanbul has a mixture. Some times you can see all four seasons at the same time in different parts of the city, due to Bosphorus and Black Sea. My part, near the sea side, was used by Byzantium as salt supply source so it is not humid, seems more dry, with south wind mostly and heavy rains max 10 days per year. Yes soil seems to be a problem, that reason I have based my garden plants mostly on shrubs.

    Dissectum ( so you see have allready learned:)) to me seems more attractive optically (and needs the help of paxi's thumb) but acer option is more secure since you say it is more hardy.

    After tomorrow's decision, I will get one and consider all your valuable comments and ofcourse will keep you informed how it goes.
    Thanks again
     
  5. alex66

    alex66 Rising Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    hi tugo welcome! zone 9b is my zone,and i have a good number of maples in my land ,for advice read in FAq "how to plant a maple" for me buy option 2, because i presume that, the cultivar in pic is Fire Glow cultivar with good resistence to dry (wind ,soil)low umidity. of course if you have another questions ask no problem!!
    ciao
     
  6. mattzone5b

    mattzone5b Active Member

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    I would just like to follow up with, if you only choose one. Go with the tree that really make you excited to see it. Don't worry about which one is more hardy. Both are hardy trees and you don't want to have any regrets. I love the dissectums the best, they are so graceful and while looking delicate on the surface develop into a strong, smaller tree that also looks nice in the winter with its twisting trunk.

    I am intrigued by the area you live in. Salt tends to make leaves burn and is generally not good for trees. When you water the tree, if you feel their might be salt in the water you might be better served just to water the tree at the ground and not the leaves. Trees do enjoy humidity so if the water is pure and sure of it, mine do well misting on warm days or even sprinking with the water hose. Either way, the salt will only make leaf burn, they will recover. Just thought I would mention it since I am not familiar with your water source.

    I am editing this to say the other people that have posted have much more experience than me in your zone and take what I say lightly but I just wanted to give you some things to think about before you choose.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2008
  7. tugo

    tugo Active Member

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    Dear alex66, nice to have the experience of the same zone. Financially I have to choose one of them. Costs 110 usd here, expensive but what to do, I love it. Though option 2 seems more safe to grow, have learned that can grow high for my small garden and optically my heart is by the weeping type. But let's see.Thanks.

    Dear mattzone5b our city water comes from far, has only chlor in it. I know because of my hobby pond tests. Weeping type should be very nice as leaned on the pond but cannot take risk because the pond is on the windy way.

    When I get the plant tomorrow, I will keep it in its container, till I read the faq's as advised and prepare the raised bed. Thanks again.
     
  8. Poetry to Burn

    Poetry to Burn Active Member

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    Tugo,

    Good luck with your purchase.

    In autumn you might consider growing some from seed. You can't grow cultivars by this method but it's very inexpensive and often produces beautiful seedlings that grow into quite nice trees.
     
  9. tugo

    tugo Active Member

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    Yees dear Poetry to Burn; Once I get my acer Palmatum, I have much to study and do all that's possible. Would be nice to have some seedlings as well to sproud around:))
    Thanks
     
  10. alex66

    alex66 Rising Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    if you want in autum ,i have many seed for you....
     
  11. tugo

    tugo Active Member

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    Why not alex66. Will keep in mind and I would be happy also if I could do some for you and other friends, as well, from here.Hopefully.
    By the way, have read almost all about both sorts, tomorrow will be a difficult decision.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2008
  12. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Ahh Tugo .... I think the decision has already been made, and that the laceleaf is the maple for you
    It is a good choice, and I hope that it does well for you
    Please enjoy :)
     
  13. STi

    STi Active Member

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    Bloodgood is a dime a dozen...Just find some local bloodgoods and look for seedlings at the base :)
     
  14. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Sti ... Bloodgood might be a dime a dozen in Connecticut, but over here you would pay $70 dollars for a small one. It would be the cultivar though, not a seedling
     
  15. STi

    STi Active Member

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    WOW!
     
  16. tugo

    tugo Active Member

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    You are compleately right:))


    Well, sometimes LIFE is helpful to make decisions. Today, when I went to the nursery without any ultimate decision, the guy told me that someone else was waiting for my decision and would like to buy 'Bloodgood' incase it would be free. Sooo, I took it as a SIGN :)) and came back to my garden with my new 'crimson queen' in my arms. Well, actually my heart was with her.

    After keeping one-two more days in the container, I will prepare a nice high bed and plant it. And keep learning more about her.

    Alex 66, I was surprised to learn that it was imported from Italy. So now one Italian guy should be enjoying his wine, with my dollars:))

    Also for STi, thanks but what we have here in nature are;Acer Cappadocicum, Hyrcanum, Monspessulanum, Opalus, Platanoides, Sempervirens, Tataricum, Trautvetteri and none of them has a nice optic for such a small gerden.

    To all friends who wrote me their views and comments, I am greatful. Wish I could be also helpful to you in any away. Was very nice of you.
     
  17. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I just took a photograph of my 'Garnet' today ... very similar to 'Crimson Queen'
    I have had this plant now for maybe 15 years ... maybe even a little more
    I think it is a very beautiful plant
     

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  18. tugo

    tugo Active Member

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    Wow, great. Hope mine will also look like but quicker pls. I am an old guy. Now was just looking at mine close up photos from today, since it is night here. Looking forward for the day light:))
     
  19. kaspian

    kaspian Active Member 10 Years

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    I had to smile at your comment, "I'm an old guy." I think about this all the time when I plant a young tree.

    I moved to a newly-built house last year, and I've planted more than 30 trees of various kinds -- including 8 Japanese (or at least Asian) maples -- ranging from shrubby native understory species to oaks that will (many decades from now) soar high above the roof.

    I can't help wondering sometimes how large, realistically, these trees will grow while I am still around to see them. (I'm 55 now.) But in a way, this is an exhilarating thought, because it makes me feel connected to this place on earth in a more permanent way. I imagine, for example, seedlings of the native Quercus bicolor (swamp white oak) spreading through the adjacent wetlands, and maybe also the scarlet oak, Quercus coccinea, taking its place among the northern red oaks, Quercus rubra, that are the dominant local species, as climate change inexorably turns the summers hotter and drier around here.

    In the shorter term, I'm hoping to see some interesting JM seedlings.

    Tugo, could you post a photo of your new Acer in its new home?
     
  20. alex66

    alex66 Rising Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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  21. tugo

    tugo Active Member

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  22. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Don't forget, that on a very hot day, even a large umbrella can be used to protect your tree
    In heavy clay, plant your tree high and mound the earth up around it to help with drainage
    water well in, then mulch with wood bark chippings to prevent moisture loss in the hot weather
    water well twice a week at least for the first year or so until the plant becomes established
    You are correct not to add more fertiliser
     
  23. tugo

    tugo Active Member

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